Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: whats going on
dave many times you have hinted that there may be something unexplanable going on with mediums and spirits
as if there are maybee forces at work that some ,we do not understand
i have thought this for a long time
there are guides who show as say a native indian,and this is a guise as we wouldnt be able to at the momment accept who they are are ie a higher evelved energy(silver birch comes to mind)
dave what do you think is happening generally ,what are your thoughts on any missing link that you have said or hinted at
dave will now turn this question back to me telling ! any thoughts i have ,so i will do so inbetween working and man flu,which incedently i took lots of good quality vitamins,vegetables ,zinc,pollen propolis,echinacea before i got this bug and nothing stopped it _________________ my website is www.hauntedessex.com
I'm becoming a bit pissed off with spirit lately. I think I'm sort of losing my faith in mediumship.
Don't get me wrong, I have seen some truly remarkable mediums over the years and those people, in my opinion, are true mediums, but I'm starting to think that the rest of us probably aren't mediums but psychics.
People ask me what is the difference between a medium and a psychic, simple, a medium gets information from spirit, a psychic gets information from people and/or objects and places.
I think a lot of people who go round spiritualist churches and halls doing 'mediumistic demonstrations' aren't mediums, but psychics. They "read" the information coming off the people they are reading for with little or no input from spirit.
People come with a desperate need to hear from Aunty Maud and it's so strong that the psychic can 'pick up' on this need then starts talking about Aunty Maud as if she were directly talking to him but she's not it's the need of the client he's picking up on and the memories they have of Aunty Maud. They're being told what they want to hear.
If spirit were so bloody clever then why haven't they got better?
We're constantly being told we have to evolve as mediums and better ourselves, ok but why doesn't spirit do the same then?
Why can't they give us a bit more than names, dates and anniversarys?
I think I'm just going through a bit of a moment. My mediumship seems to have hit a bit of a wall and it's annoying the hell out of me.
yes i have the same thoughts at times i just wonder why this happens many mediums i have seen seem to psychically link as well without possibly knowing that they do this some classic examples happened when i was with a medium this week ,she doesn't say shes a medium though ,she wonders where and why she gets what she does ......this is a fascinating subject that i hope we can debate _________________ my website is www.hauntedessex.com
There is so much to talk about in both of these posts that it will take a while in between putting the decorations up to answer.
First thing I would say is this.
Look at the posts and see how many "facts" you have assumed to be true.
Within these questions is truth. Not all truth and not necessarily universal truth but whittle away and understanding always comes in the end _________________ Please visit our main site
Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: whats going on
mark wrote:
dave many times you have hinted that there may be something unexplanable going on with mediums and spirits
as if there are maybee forces at work that some ,we do not understand
i have thought this for a long time
there are guides who show as say a native indian,and this is a guise as we wouldnt be able to at the momment accept who they are are ie a higher evelved energy(silver birch comes to mind)
dave what do you think is happening generally ,what are your thoughts on any missing link that you have said or hinted at
dave will now turn this question back to me telling ! any thoughts i have ,so i will do so inbetween working and man flu,which incedently i took lots of good quality vitamins,vegetables ,zinc,pollen propolis,echinacea before i got this bug and nothing stopped it
So how much of this post is fact mark?
Forget what you have learned and ask yourself what you know.
It is fact at one level and nonsense at another as indeed is everything in existence.
Nonsense to us at least.
It is no good me giving you my world model because it is mine and mine alone.
But everything in existence has the same source.
Perhaps look beyond what you believe and look for the source.
Sounds like I am trying to be a guru or something and I am not. _________________ Please visit our main site
i will think about this dave
and i will just tell you what i get initially so there may be 2 replies ,the now ,and the thought that i give it _________________ my website is www.hauntedessex.com
I'm becoming a bit pissed off with spirit lately. I think I'm sort of losing my faith in mediumship.
Don't get me wrong, I have seen some truly remarkable mediums over the years and those people, in my opinion, are true mediums, but I'm starting to think that the rest of us probably aren't mediums but psychics.
People ask me what is the difference between a medium and a psychic, simple, a medium gets information from spirit, a psychic gets information from people and/or objects and places.
I think a lot of people who go round spiritualist churches and halls doing 'mediumistic demonstrations' aren't mediums, but psychics. They "read" the information coming off the people they are reading for with little or no input from spirit.
People come with a desperate need to hear from Aunty Maud and it's so strong that the psychic can 'pick up' on this need then starts talking about Aunty Maud as if she were directly talking to him but she's not it's the need of the client he's picking up on and the memories they have of Aunty Maud. They're being told what they want to hear.
If spirit were so bloody clever then why haven't they got better?
We're constantly being told we have to evolve as mediums and better ourselves, ok but why doesn't spirit do the same then?
Why can't they give us a bit more than names, dates and anniversarys?
I think I'm just going through a bit of a moment. My mediumship seems to have hit a bit of a wall and it's annoying the hell out of me.
Come on Raymond. You know full well when you are being mediumistic or psychic. One you live, and the other you see or sense. It can of course be a combination of the two.
If the people on platform are psychics and not mediums the it just shows the low standards the the particular church sets for itself. Or it could be of course that the simply don't know the difference.
Yes the people are being told what they want to hear of course they are. And yes the names dates etc is not only boring but often as not inaccurate and shows no evidence that spirit are giving this information.
What exactly does evolving as a medium mean? Does it mean more accuracy or more surrender or what?
All mediums go through a wasteland at times. I have heard every explanation in the book from"being rested" to "losing contact with spirit". It could of course be plain old boredom and a yearning for some learning. _________________ Please visit our main site
Or it could be of course that the simply don't know the difference.
The last circle I sat in the leader of the group, who wasn't a brilliant medium himself but knew how to teach very well, always explained the difference to us.
He would call it 'Spiritual readings' and 'Auric readings'. Spiritual readings is information you get from spirit and nowhere else. Full stop.
Auric readings are what you get from the client or an object you're holding or a place you are visiting or if you're using some form of tool like the Tarot cards for example.
We spent months learning the different "feel" of each form of reading and while it's very, very subtle there is a difference in feeling.
Since learning this whenever I watch a 'medium' demonstrate I tune in to his/her energy and observe how they are reading.
When I first started doing this I was astonished at how very little input spirit have in your average mediumistic reading.
Some mediums had no spirit input whatsoever yet still 'thanked' spirit at the end.
And then it dawned on me that most of them probably weren't aware that all they were doing was a mixture of Auric reading and cold reading.
And then it dawned on me that up until that point all I had probably been doing was a mixture of Auric reading and cold reading.
That's when the current crisis set in.
Maybe Donnis is right. Maybe this whole thing is a scam. I'd hate for that to be right because you just don't want people like Donnis to be correct - ever.
Or it could be of course that the simply don't know the difference.
The last circle I sat in the leader of the group, who wasn't a brilliant medium himself but knew how to teach very well, always explained the difference to us.
He would call it 'Spiritual readings' and 'Auric readings'. Spiritual readings is information you get from spirit and nowhere else. Full stop.
Auric readings are what you get from the client or an object you're holding or a place you are visiting or if you're using some form of tool like the Tarot cards for example.
We spent months learning the different "feel" of each form of reading and while it's very, very subtle there is a difference in feeling.
Since learning this whenever I watch a 'medium' demonstrate I tune in to his/her energy and observe how they are reading.
When I first started doing this I was astonished at how very little input spirit have in your average mediumistic reading.
Some mediums had no spirit input whatsoever yet still 'thanked' spirit at the end.
And then it dawned on me that most of them probably weren't aware that all they were doing was a mixture of Auric reading and cold reading.
And then it dawned on me that up until that point all I had probably been doing was a mixture of Auric reading and cold reading.
That's when the current crisis set in.
Maybe Donnis is right. Maybe this whole thing is a scam. I'd hate for that to be right because you just don't want people like Donnis to be correct - ever.
We all cold read at times because we cannot help reading body language or tone of voice etc.
How many times have I pointed out that the mind is the enemy.
Cold reading is mind only and given free reign it blocks any flow from elsewhere.
You know I am lets say a little sceptical but lets say just for now that I am a believer.
When spirit come through you there is nothing subtle about it. They use your emotions and senses to get the message across and having a lodger in your body even for a short while is as subtle as ...........in the nuts
Of course Donnis is correct some of the time but not all of the time so you have to sort the chaff from the wheat.
Just like a medium really.
I don't know if you teach at the moment but now is the time. _________________ Please visit our main site
David said to me once judge the message not the medium-
I like that very much
I want to put a different spin on it ... if I am bringing through medical information that the client does not know about - who or where do we/I get that information from?
We honestly really don't' know or are unable at this time to be 100% certain about these things .. I attempt to just grow myself and allow things to evolve there are times I scratch my head as information is not as clear as I am use to .... and other times when I have so much input most of my energy is used controlling it so I can get it all through in the hour _________________ as a babe drinks from its mothers breast so too does man milk mother earth
With Auric readings, EG it is possible to reiceve information from a person even if they aren't aware of it at the time.
Auric readings are psychic messages the reciever gets from the subconsious mind.
This is what I was trying to explain before. I have decscribed to people, in intricate detail about a loved one they had lost even things they had done or said in life, and anyone listening would think I was talking to them from the spirit world, but I was aware that I was getting all the information from the person NOT from spirit.
The client was so desperate to hear information about their loved one they were literally oozing information about them.
Makes me feel like a bit of a cheat but the person took comfort from it which I suppose was the desired outcome.
if its psychic thats one thing but if its a message from spirit and there is evidence that helps then that is different when the sitter gets acknowledgement ,proof in there opinion that there is life after death ,
i think that sometimes a sitter says they just no that there loved one was there and its from them even without evidence and that to me seems mmmmm well debatable
Dave said...When we have to face up to the fact that we are giving a certain impression to someone and it is false, are we doing it for their benefit or ours.
may i ask you to explain this to me Dave please
just putting this here to debate really _________________ my website is www.hauntedessex.com
if its psychic thats one thing but if its a message from spirit and there is evidence that helps then that is different when the sitter gets acknowledgement ,proof in there opinion that there is life after death ,
i think that sometimes a sitter says they just no that there loved one was there and its from them even without evidence and that to me seems mmmmm well debatable
Dave said...When we have to face up to the fact that we are giving a certain impression to someone and it is false, are we doing it for their benefit or ours.
may i ask you to explain this to me Dave please
just putting this here to debate really
People want to believe in life after death. They also want to feel that their departed loved ones are with them still.
This means that their motives are purely selfish. Do they ever wonder what spirit want?
People think about life after death why? Fear fear fear and fear again.
Do they wonder about life before birth. No No No again.
Why.
Because they do not have to fear it, it is past.
So I could argue that all Spiritualism is based on fear and selfishness.
What I mean by whose benefit is it for I mean that mediums often like being in the limelight. It gives them a sort of mystique and power over their fellows.
Would it not just be simpler to go and find one person with a real material need IE food shelter a listening ear and help them rather than serve the selfish whims of those who cannot face up to the fact that their loved ones have gone.
I think that a lot of the time mediums are entertaining the whims of others and in return the mediums gain a feeling of self worth.
I wouldn't say all of the time but certainly most of the time. I still do believe that spirit contact is possible but the thing that gets my schtick is why spirit is so stingy with their time and information.
I sometimes feel like they're playing with us. Throwing us little titbits to keep us hanging on like an obedient dog desperate to please it's master.
It is really annoying me and if I can't break through this wall I've hit I think I'm going to give up on mediumship and just focus on psychism, at least I am in control of that.
DAVE SAID People want to believe in life after death. They also want to feel that their departed loved ones are with them still.
This means that their motives are purely selfish. Do they ever wonder what spirit want?
MARKThey also want to feel that their departed loved ones are with them still,i think they feel reassured that life goes on ....
,well many do want to believe in life after death.yes for sure , because they can meet them one day ,its not all about fear
life before death yes i think many do think about this but when a loved one dies they just usually wantto no they will see tham again
DAVE SAIDSo I could argue that all Spiritualism is based on fear and selfishness.
MARK ,well i dont believe that at all a genuine medium will seek to help people who are at a loss when loved ones die and give evidence
DAVE SAID Would it not just be simpler to go and find one person with a real material need IE food shelter a listening ear and help them rather than serve the selfish whims of those who cannot face up to the fact that their loved ones have gone.
MARK,some good people do this and help in many ways of course many dont ,i dont feel its really selfiish dave it helps some to moove on
and of course some mediums are there to just get there ego boosted ,then there are many that dont _________________ my website is www.hauntedessex.com
I think that a lot of the time mediums are entertaining the whims of others and in return the mediums gain a feeling of self worth.
I think in a lot of cases you're right Hobbs.
I have seen some dreadful Mediums in my time and don't just mean they're having a bad day I mean really, really baaaaaad ones.
Unfortunately the bad ones far, far out-weigh the good ones.
I think the various ways in which one can train to be a medium these days has a lot to do with the quality of some of them.
I've known people who have been on a residential weekend course in mediumship then the following weekend gone out to churches and start working.
While I admire their confidence I seriously doubt their mediumistic ability.
I first sat in a development circle at the age of seventeen, I'm now 36 and I still consider myself a student, I suppose I always will be.
I don't know if I want to be a medium anymore anyway. All this time I've spent trying to establish contact with spirit and I find things like Tarot cards and Psycometry far more useful and relevant.
Sometimes it may seem that I contradict myself but that is because all things are possible.
I also believe that it is possible to have contact with the dear departed. They do have and did have and always will have AN existence.
We separate past from present. Why?
Even memory can only be accessed in the now. It takes you out of the now, but that is a different story.
Ivor James once told me to believe in life after death with all my heart and soul, because if there is none it really does not matter.
In other words, make yourself happy and believe what ever you want.
Why is contact with spirit so mundane on most occasions.
Perhaps we ask the wrong questions and desire the wrong things.
Perhaps they are saying "look past me and move on". I am just a bore that you met at a party and it is time to look for someone or something more substantial. _________________ Please visit our main site
DAVE SAID People want to believe in life after death. They also want to feel that their departed loved ones are with them still.
This means that their motives are purely selfish. Do they ever wonder what spirit want?
MARKThey also want to feel that their departed loved ones are with them still,i think they feel reassured that life goes on ....
,well many do want to believe in life after death.yes for sure , because they can meet them one day ,its not all about fear
life before death yes i think many do think about this but when a loved one dies they just usually wantto no they will see tham again
DAVE SAIDSo I could argue that all Spiritualism is based on fear and selfishness.
MARK ,well i dont believe that at all a genuine medium will seek to help people who are at a loss when loved ones die and give evidence
DAVE SAID Would it not just be simpler to go and find one person with a real material need IE food shelter a listening ear and help them rather than serve the selfish whims of those who cannot face up to the fact that their loved ones have gone.
MARK,some good people do this and help in many ways of course many dont ,i dont feel its really selfiish dave it helps some to moove on
and of course some mediums are there to just get there ego boosted ,then there are many that dont
And if in ten years you have followed the path that you see as correct today you may be one of the few mediums who has not been lured by notoriety.
I do hope so.
The point I made in the above post was that peoples motives are selfish be they "good or bad".
in reply to daves question...Fact ,mmmm well I can only say what is a fact if I see hear feel etc personally,so none I suppose ,and to use the word guide is just a thought a feeling ,that’s what my brain tells me ,now to feel more deeply let me see……..i get that we have preconceived ideas based on humans being taught what is “acceptable “generally,we are each so unique that we do what we consider generally as a “safe” thing to do ,there were times when the native Indians lived from mother earth and they spent more time with it and there for reaped there rewards,which was an ability to give and take different from todays society in generall,they seem to no a cycle that we need to understand now on earth and that there is far too much to be mended but there has to be a way to progress forward as we are all indeed gods creatures here and on other planets ,we are the god and indeed many people realise that we are our own guides as well and that mankind will continue to destroy and why does man do this ,how does man stop this ,its all about understanding that we “are “and the ”now”is important and the sooner we learn that the source is “love” then we will understand the god and the many learning curves we go through and being able to deal with the realities we create ,listen to mother earth and absorb the energies and one will find an acceptance through change.
Well dave I don’t know where that came from and i was going to read it and see if i should change it but nope thats what i got so here it is
i have tolearn one way or another and i dont feel that this came from my brain .it just flowed
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any thoughts i have ,so i will do so inbetween working and man flu,which incedently i took lots of good quality vitamins,vegetables ,zinc,pollen propolis,echinacea before i got this bug and nothing stopped it 
