Their ways may seem barbaric or cruel to us but they quite probably think the exact same thing about us. Are your morals more moral than theirs?
Oh, I nearly forgot. When it comes to murdering people because of the lifestyle they lead or the clothes they choose to wear, then yes, my morals are infinately more superior.
Of course, you must raise your child in whatever way you see fit. Hopefully by the time she's an adult the next world war would have come and gone and either Islam will be wiped out or will rule the entire world. I'm sure, thanks to your teachings, she'll be well equiped for either outcome.
Oh, I nearly forgot. When it comes to murdering people because of the lifestyle they lead or the clothes they choose to wear, then yes, my morals are infinately more superior.
So you are saying that it is ok to persecute people because of thier religion but not if you don't like their clothes or sexuality?
The world doesn't work like that Raymond.
You are contradicting your own argument!
You don't choose religion just like you don't choose your sexuality. A person can be brought up in a strict religious family and totally reject that way of life if it doesn't feel right to them. You live your life and if religion is the thing for you then that is part of your life. In the same way the right religion for you will become apparent as your own beliefs and personal set of morals grow and develop.
Were you brought up a wiccan or pagan or whatever you choose to call yourself and your beliefs? I doubt it. You found your own path.
Were you brought up gay? I think I can safely say that most people assume thier children to be heterosexual until given a reason to think differently. Did you choose to be gay? I don't believe it can ever be a concious choice, just as I don't believe that being a wiccan/pagan or any other religion is a concious choice. If it is the right path for a person they will follow it.
I am teaching my daughter to accept and understand the people around her and how they live their lives. I know this is a better way than teaching her to hate, to discriminate, to live in ignorance.
You live your superior life, it's your right as a human being. I feel the point you are missing is that the extremists of all religions and all other causes think they and thier morals are superior too.
That is what will cause the next world war.
Curiosity may kill the cat but superiority will kill the people.
I feel the point you are missing is that the extremists of all religions and all other causes think they and thier morals are superior too.
And the point you are missing Sian is, yes, all religions and walks of life have their fringe extremists.
All of them have a few who just seem to take it all too far.
The difference with Islam is it isn't just "the few". The extremists of that religion are most vertainly in the majority. The vast majority.
You are allowing yourself to be misled by the media.
I thought you were more intelligent than that but obviously I was mistaken.
I do not particularly care whether we agree or disagree. We are on different sides of a very big fence here. I'm not trying to convince you my opinion is correct, partly because it's just my opinion and I am as capable of being wrong as you are -and partly because I don't argue with tabloid thinkers.
One thing though - we have proved why religion is such an emotive issue and so prone to start wars. There is no proof of the existence of any gods of any religion and therefore no definitive way to show who is right, no definitive answers, therefore it will always be a matter of opinion which will always be biased.
You are allowing yourself to be misled by the media.
And you are allowing yourself to jump to incorrect conclusions Sian.
I have said on here once before that I haven't read a paper or watched the news in over a year.
I have also said that I live in an area that is over 90% Muslim. I form my opinions on the things I see and hear going on around me every day.
As always, my offer is open to you as it is to anybody who thinks I'm making all this up. You're more than welcome to come and stay with me for a few weeks and make up your own mind.
i understand that you are basing your opinions from your experiences raymond...however.... from my own observations it would appear to me that communities that are within another country seem to show the extreme views of a religion... i suppose the expectation of these communities is that of misunderstanding or rejection ... so thus they portray themselves with a huge chip on their shoulders with something to prove....offensive rather than defensive......
to experience the religion within a country that is predominately that religion ...i am sure as sian stated , you see it from a different perspective.
i am with sian , in that i encourage my children to find their own path to experience and show understanding to all people no matter what their religion or sexual orientation... know and love the person not their labels! _________________ i'm not afraid of dying...it's living that scares me!!!!
I just find it impossible to show tolerance and understanding to a group of people who refuse to tolerate and understand others.
It seems strange to me how the leftie do-gooders go out of their way to defend Muslims when they are probably the most ring-wing, intolerant group on the planet.
Not all 1.5 Billion of them surely Raymond??i mean, that 1/6th of the Worlds population are all malice and vainly evil, of sure yeaha! geesh Raymond, if you belive that everyone of Islam is a bad person, then review some of your gay icons and what religion they are, i'm sure you'll be shocked at who of them are of Islam mate _________________ I give you, the Waffle King
I work in inner london for a local council and I have to say that a lot of the muslim i see are just regular people. i can see what raymond is saying tho. I get the feeling with a lot of them that they would like to convert us all to their religion and get rid of all the others
I sort of get waht it is you're saying in your usual 'arse-about-face' way Waff, but yes, I do think the vast majority of those 1.5 billion people support the antics of Islamic terrorists and would love to go to war with western civilisation.
I'm not aware of any 'gay icons' being muslim actually. Would you care to point one out?
I just find it impossible to show tolerance and understanding to a group of people who refuse to tolerate and understand others..
but you've got to start somewhere.... teach our children tolerance and compassion... eventually it will have a knock on effect and will be reciprocated..... well one can live in hope!! _________________ i'm not afraid of dying...it's living that scares me!!!!
I do think the vast majority of those 1.5 billion people support the antics of Islamic terrorists and would love to go to war with western civilisation.
I'm not aware of any 'gay icons' being muslim actually. Would you care to point one out?
Vast Majority?? have you rescently had a brain hemorage or something?? cos thats just a stupid generalisation and not to mention quite rascist, i know a few muslims, and none of them (thats out of about 25) agree with the Terror or the Ideas behind them, i maybe an essex bloke, but even i'm not stupid enough to belive that several million people want to raise there hands and say "9/11, fucking great idea that was Ishmail!", and it's not that the East wants to go to war with the West, more like the West wants to conquer the East for the Oil Fields and the Gem stones and the Excellent Persian Rugs!
As for Gay Icons that happen to be of Islam, a gay friend of mine in Cardiff quite likes Janet Jackson for her non-existant songstressing and shes of Islam. _________________ I give you, the Waffle King
Thanks for walking into that trap Waff. I knew you were going to mention Janet Jackson.
Firstly, as far as I'm aware she isn't a Muslim. She's expressed an interest in it (as did her late brother) but I don't believe they actually made it all the way into full conversion.
As for being a gay icon, she used to be but since her recent anti-gay outbursts her 'fag-hag' points have been well and truly discounted, a bit like Donna Summer when she said all gays should be crucified when she became a christian.
Two half decent careers that will never recover since the gays turned their backs.
Sorry, I disagree that the main thrust of what Raymond was saying is racist.
In an ideal world we'd all get on and be tolerant of each other.
We don't live in an ideal world.
I know many Muslims who are decent, law abiding, kind and tolerant individuals who respect the traditional culture of the UK.
I also know many who are quite the opposite, who seem to want to destroy the traditions of these islands and who actively disrespect people of other faiths, especially if they happen to be female or gay - they want the UK to become a Muslim state.
Saying that there are people within the Muslim community who would be happy to convert us all (by force if necessary) to Islam is not racist - it's simply a fact.
By the way, my opinions come from time spent working and living in a multi-ethnic, multi-culture community, not from reading The News of The World or The Daily Mail.
Calling me a racist simply won't wash. I was lucky enough to not be influenced by the left-wing brainwashing agenda of children that's been going on in schools since the early 80's.
I could think of far worse things to be accused of.
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