billy nomates
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who am i?and i am NOT having a dig!!!!!!!!!!
who am i? who are you?
where do your thoughts come from?
where do our opinions come from?
are we linked?are we seperate?
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david hobbs
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Well you asked quite a few questions in one go.
As no one really knows thw answer they can only give opinions on the subject so here is my opinion.
Em...... Now I have to think of an opinion.
OK then to me evertything is mind. There is only one mind and it manifests itself through our individual conciousness which is of course
individual only from an every day material standpoint.
Every action thought and deed is the one mind moving in a fantastic Ballet.
The movement of my hand on this keyboard is no less astounding and miraculous than the movement of all of the stars in all of the galaxies.
To see what I am I see what I have created all around me and all around me is a mirror of myself and from that I will learn and create something else but again this is only the movement of the one mind.
Our opinions come from language and the ides of others in the main. A true opinion can only be gained from the inner bigger self. But then opinions cease to have any relevnce so don't waste to much time on them but rather see what effect your opinions have on your emotions.
Emotions are without language and threrfore they are a pure reflection of your inner being.
Also I do like fish and chips.
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billy nomates
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interesting obe won.......
however.......you said 'Emotions are without language and threrfore they are a pure reflection of your inner being.'
now i thought that 'the one' didnt have any feelings/emotions?
it just watches.......
some say that we should control our emotions and then our true selves will be revealed.........so that doesnt fit in with what u wrote.
so where do our emotions come from?
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david hobbs
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| billy nomates wrote: | interesting obe won.......
however.......you said 'Emotions are without language and threrfore they are a pure reflection of your inner being.'
now i thought that 'the one' didnt have any feelings/emotions?
it just watches.......
We are the one and we have emotions
some say that we should control our emotions and then our true selves will be revealed.........so that doesnt fit in with what u wrote.
Who are the some? I think thatthe term true self is a bit missleading. Every part of our selves is the true self.
so where do our emotions come from? |
Funny thing that. It seems to me that the emotions hit the Chakras first and foremoset.ie solar plex base heart. Could it be that the feeling of emotion is the physical body picking up the feelings of something on a different level. If you like a hidden part of ourselves that we do not recognise because without language we have no point of reference.
In other words a wordless but real sort of a mind that occupies the entire physical body.
I would like to see what a scientist would say about the corelation between mind and emotion. ie which reacts first.
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billy nomates
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we have instincts such as fight or flight-according to science these come from the reptile brain- so nowt to do with auras or chakras.........
self attainment is the whole point of 'the great work'..........
we can choose to be annoyed,aggrieved etc...........
so why do we behave like pavlovs dogs???????
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david hobbs
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| billy nomates wrote: | we have instincts such as fight or flight-according to science these come from the reptile brain- so nowt to do with auras or chakras.........
self attainment is the whole point of 'the great work'..........
we can choose to be annoyed,aggrieved etc...........
so why do we behave like pavlovs dogs??????? |
I think you will find that fight and flight is a reaction and not an emotion so have a think on it.
Pavlovs dogs response was again a reaction and not an emotion.
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Lilly
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Every morning when you wake up, you create the world,
with thoughts, which among others, you call memory.
Maybe it helps if you look at what you always think you are, as a prism.
The light of awakeness and dreams is split by that prism,
and yellow can enjoy red and vice versa.
But it always remains light that enjoys light.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hunter
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You are who you make yourself !
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david hobbs
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| Hunter wrote: | | You are who you make yourself ! |
And what if you remove the illusions with which you have made your self
Who are you then?
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sheelanagig
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100% Human LOL
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Raymond
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Or very, very dull.
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david hobbs
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| Raymond wrote: | | Or very, very dull. |
Then go somewhere else.
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david hobbs
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| sheelanagig wrote: | | 100% Human LOL |
Why?
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | And what if you remove the illusions with which you have made your self
Who are you then? |
Once again I obviously need to explain what I mean for Hobbs, poor old chap.
We are all illusion. Every one of us.
We are the things we have built up around us. Our thoughts, opinions, personality, character, morals are all based upon the illusions we hold to be true.
It's all smoke and mirrors. Take those away and we'll all be very dull people indeed.
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mark
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david hobbs
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| Raymond wrote: | | david hobbs wrote: | And what if you remove the illusions with which you have made your self
Who are you then? |
Once again I obviously need to explain what I mean for Hobbs, poor old chap.
We are all illusion. Every one of us.
We are the things we have built up around us. Our thoughts, opinions, personality, character, morals are all based upon the illusions we hold to be true.
It's all smoke and mirrors. Take those away and we'll all be very dull people indeed. |
I couldn't agree less
Take away the illusion and what lies beneath is amazing.
The illusion is of the mind. We are not our mind.
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | | We are not our mind. |
Well, I couldn't agree less with that.
This year I discovered that we are exactly that. All mind.
I have gone through physical and emotional changes this year that most people never experience. The way I look at the world, and more importantly- the way I look at myself have undergone monumental changes.
I've discovered that everything about us is controlled and originates from the mind.
I have lived in a box for the best part of 15 years by my own choosing, and now I have decided that is going to change.
But it was only my mind that stopped me getting out of that box, it really has nothing to do with my physical shape.
Also, I still 'feel' like a fat person, even though other people, my clothes and my reflection tell me otherwise.
My mind is still the mind of a fat person, and until that 'catches up' I will always see myself as a fat person - no matter how my body looks.
The mind is everything. It's who were are and who we can be.
Without it there is nothing. Absolutely nothing.
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david hobbs
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That's right Raymond. I think I may have pointed that out a long time ago.
OK can you think without words.
If I THINK, then it is in words and images. If I visualise a tree I have a name for the object, it is a tree and that of course is a word learned from others.
So remove the words and what is left?
What you say makes sense of course but it is naturally all words concepts and judgements. As the thread askes who am I, then you are surely not words concepts and judgements
Are words judgements and concepts your mind or of your mind?
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david hobbs
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This question is an old Koan and designed to make you remove all of the clutter from your mind, and stop the mind.
It apparently leads to enlightenment in some people.
A bit like the sound of one hand clapping.
It is of course a meditation and one that should be used to the exclusion of all else while you work with it.
I have never had the patience as you really need to live it day and night.
Raymond many Shamans have learned their truth through suffering and strife.
I have to say that you are following this old and established path to your truth.
It seems that life comes along and drags us kicking and screaming into the class room even if we try to resist and even if there couldn't possibly be anything else to know.
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Raymond
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I wouldn't say 'suffering and strife' in my case but certainly a very difficult but wonderful way.
Since my surgery I have discovered that everything I thought I knew was inaccurate.
It's very difficult to explain.
I imagine that I feel similar to an amputee. Waking up and suddenly your body is different.
I'm not getting all pervy here but sometimes I touch my body and it doesn't feel like my body at all. I look in the mirror and I don't see myself. I see myself in a shop window - and it isn't me. It really is a very odd experience.
The point is, my mind - for whatever reason - refuses to catch up with the rest of my body. My body was operated on and my body changed, but nothing has changed in my mind.
I don't know if it will just 'follow suit' in time or if I need to work on it but it really is strange.
No matter how many times people say "You look great", "you've done so well" I always think "Oh they're just being nice".
My surgeon calls it 'body morphic disorder', it's what anorexics have when they think they're fat but in reality they're stick-thin.
That's great, it's got a name. So what do I do about it?
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swanlady
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| Quote: | | That's great, it's got a name. So what do I do about it? |
What you do about it is up to you.
You can fight it or.........
You can accept it. go with the flow as to speak.
Touch your body and feel the change.
Look in mirrors and shop windows and enjoy the change your body is going through right now.
Take the compliments from other people and revel in them.
Start living Raymond.
Now is your time to get out there and join the world of the living.
Enjoy your life.
Enjoy the friends and family around you.
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wackyjacky
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I agree with Swannie here Raymond.. of course it will be strange at first but you'll get used to it.
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meiah
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| Raymond wrote: | I wouldn't say 'suffering and strife' in my case but certainly a very difficult but wonderful way.
Since my surgery I have discovered that everything I thought I knew was inaccurate.
It's very difficult to explain.
I imagine that I feel similar to an amputee. Waking up and suddenly your body is different.
I'm not getting all pervy here but sometimes I touch my body and it doesn't feel like my body at all. I look in the mirror and I don't see myself. I see myself in a shop window - and it isn't me. It really is a very odd experience.
The point is, my mind - for whatever reason - refuses to catch up with the rest of my body. My body was operated on and my body changed, but nothing has changed in my mind.
I don't know if it will just 'follow suit' in time or if I need to work on it but it really is strange.
No matter how many times people say "You look great", "you've done so well" I always think "Oh they're just being nice".
My surgeon calls it 'body morphic disorder', it's what anorexics have when they think they're fat but in reality they're stick-thin.
That's great, it's got a name. So what do I do about it? |
Now, here's a funny thing. My body often seems to know stuff before my brain does. My body reacts before my brain realises what is happenning.
When I first started working with energy type things, I used to have to listen to sensations, in my hands, in order for my mind or brain to feel t and interpret it.
I still do. I am a tactile person, I rarely visualise. I sense.
How do you work?
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Raymond
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| meiah wrote: | | How do you work? |
It depends what I'm working on but usually I just 'know'. I don't hear voices or see pictures, I just know.
Is that one of the 'clairs'?
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Hunter
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I think it's clairsentience Raymond.
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Raymond
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Thanks Hunter, I knew it had a fancy-dancy name.
Clair Rayner would have done!
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david hobbs
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So who are you then?
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evergreen
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| Raymond wrote: | I wouldn't say 'suffering and strife' in my case but certainly a very difficult but wonderful way.
Since my surgery I have discovered that everything I thought I knew was inaccurate.
It's very difficult to explain.
I imagine that I feel similar to an amputee. Waking up and suddenly your body is different.
I'm not getting all pervy here but sometimes I touch my body and it doesn't feel like my body at all. I look in the mirror and I don't see myself. I see myself in a shop window - and it isn't me. It really is a very odd experience.
The point is, my mind - for whatever reason - refuses to catch up with the rest of my body. My body was operated on and my body changed, but nothing has changed in my mind.
I don't know if it will just 'follow suit' in time or if I need to work on it but it really is strange.
No matter how many times people say "You look great", "you've done so well" I always think "Oh they're just being nice".
My surgeon calls it 'body morphic disorder', it's what anorexics have when they think they're fat but in reality they're stick-thin.
That's great, it's got a name. So what do I do about it? |
its simple you learn to think differently only by viewing yourself differently.. you learn to change your point of view some get it fast than others some never truly get there.. but you are aware you are seeing yourself in this manner so you should mange this
what you are going through many go through but in various way like the abuse victim they cannot break the cycle until they see the worth of themselves... it is really no different, and thinking you are different will perhaps make your transition much more difficult Raymond
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | | So who are you then? |
Anything I convince myself to be.
The secret is the mind. Always the mind. Once you get a handle on the mind anything is possible.
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beantighe
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Then you've answered your own question, Raymond. It will take time, of course it will. It's a huge transition you've been through. But learning to love yourself as you are - now - is one of the hardest things to do, sometimes. I know this.
xx
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Raymond
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I've never had a problem with loving myself Beany - sometimes a bit too much.
I just wish I could see what others see.
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david hobbs
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| Raymond wrote: | I've never had a problem with loving myself Beany - sometimes a bit too much.
I just wish I could see what others see. |
Others cannot see the true Raymond.
He is hidden under layers of judgement.
Not his judgement but the judgement of those who see him from the outside and compartmentalise him through their own life experiences and belief systems.
You can only ever see yourself.
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beantighe
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Actually, that's very true, David.
Which of us doesn't wrap a veneer - a cloak - around us for the benefit of those who see us, and for our own protection?
Many people in my life - even those closest to me, have judged me by their own standards and by what they see - or think they see, and worse still, yet others have judged me merely on the evidence of hearsay. Not one of them really knew me, because they didn't take the trouble to find out, or even to ask me.
That's why I try very hard not to judge others, because I realise that what we see may be only an illusion, not the real person at all.
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evergreen
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the truth is that you don't show them you, so how can they see something (the real you) when you choose not to show them....
and it is true of many of us.....
it is very powerful to show the true and vulnerable self... there is a lot of power in being just how/who you are it shows a massive level of acceptance regardless of what or who is in your life
and at the risk of sounding new agey ... it a place to get to
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meiah
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Good points.
Thing is, when you change constantly, which we all do, how many of us can say we really know ourselves. Hence how can we have a true image of ourselves, whether physically or otherwise.
How can others see what we see, when our perceptions are formed from our experiences, and our percieved knowledge and understanding, and everytjing is filtered through this layer of perception. .
Add to this that the filter is not static, it changes as we do ...... vulnerable filter is very different to happy confident filter ....... business like "at work" filter is different to "mellow "day off" filter......
Unless another person has exactly the same filter, their perception will be different than ours
Yes, it is all mind. It is all there, but how we see changes what we see, as we rarely see all of it.
Hence, we leave our self behind when we work at the level of mind.
So "who am I?"
Whatever you see yourself as being, because that is how you define you. The definitions coming from the filters
So "who am I?"
The sum of your current filters
Beyond that, all is mind and there is no "I"
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david hobbs
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Or perhaps their is only I.
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beantighe
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This is really interesting and thought-provoking.
Evergreen - if I may clarify and explain my situation to you:
The others I was referring to were members of my family, both blood relatives and adopted ones. They were scattered around the country, and I rarely, sometimes never got to meet them in person. The opinions they formed of me were based entirely on what my adoptive mother told them. She didn't like me, and I never liked her. But they still believed everything she said, in spite of never having met me. That's why they're not in my life now - those who are still alive, that is. (No, I didn't help them on their way - Mother Nature and old age did that!)
Paradoxically, one of my favourite sayings was also one of Mother's:
Here's to those who wish me well,
And those that don't can go to hell! 
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Raymond
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| beantighe wrote: | Here's to those who wish me well,
And those that don't can go to hell! |
I like her.
I put a message on my facebook profile at Samhain:
To all the Pagans I like, Samhain Blessings!
To all the non-pagans I like, Happy Halloween!
To all the Pagans and non-pagans I don't like, hurry up and die!
You wouldn't believe the stick I got from all the love 'n' lighters for that one.
I can't help but feel it bothers you when you talk of these people who don't like you Beany.
If they want to dislike you because of the say-so of other people then f*ck 'em.
Do you really need those people in your life anyway?
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evergreen
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| beantighe wrote: | This is really interesting and thought-provoking.
Evergreen - if I may clarify and explain my situation to you:
The others I was referring to were members of my family, both blood relatives and adopted ones. They were scattered around the country, and I rarely, sometimes never got to meet them in person. The opinions they formed of me were based entirely on what my adoptive mother told them. She didn't like me, and I never liked her. But they still believed everything she said, in spite of never having met me. That's why they're not in my life now - those who are still alive, that is. (No, I didn't help them on their way - Mother Nature and old age did that!)
Paradoxically, one of my favourite sayings was also one of Mother's:
Here's to those who wish me well,
And those that don't can go to hell! |
and what others think of you in none of your business..
I mean who gives a toss at the end of the day it means nothing
i use that one often...
I understand what you are talking about Beanie.. my reply was in general not aimed at you though... and what you are describing I believe is extremely common in all persons lives.. :)
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beantighe
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That's what I said, Raymond. They're well and truly out of it now and have been for years. I know I'm not the horrible things they said about me. I don't care any more.
And you wouldn't have liked my mother if she'd brought you up - you wouldn't have liked her at all. It was bad enough for her that I refused to be a Christian, but she had no tolerance either for anyone who wasn't what she called 'normal', if you get my drift, Raymond - and I don't mean any offense by that at all.
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Raymond
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You mean she didn't like knob-jockeys.
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beantighe
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LOL, Raymond! Yes, you could say that. Not just her, it was dad too.
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Raymond
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That's fair enough. I don't have a problem with that.
The truth is they probably didn't like gays simply because they had never met any and believed all the outrageous things that were said about them in those days.
You can't blame anyone for not liking something they've never had any personal experience of.
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david hobbs
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What.
To me that is the biggest reason to dislike someone.
You hear twats talking to each other from a position of the highest authority on a subject that they have absolutely no experience of.
Now that really does pee me off.
Oh you don't have to have experienced it to have an opinion
Well yes you do actually you pillock.
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Raymond
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No I don't think that's true.
I have met plenty of heterosexual people who have never had a gay friend and have never had any positive experience of a gay person in their life.
I've befriended them and then at some point they discovered about my sexuality.
Some of them have turned away from me because of it - they are the real pillocks, but most of them have changed their views.
Some people don't have a lot to do with black people, or disabled people, no fault of their own, they just don't have the opportunity to mix in those circles. You really can't blame them for being ignorant about those people if they don't have much to do with them on a daily basis.
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david hobbs
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So there you have it
Their views arwe formed from ignorance and yes I can blame them and I do.
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Raymond
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How can you blame them???
I've have been to tiny remote villages where there are no gay people, or black people, or asian people.
It has to be remembered that gay people and ethnic people in Britain generally live in built up 'city' areas.
I went to a small village just 2 years ago and me and my friend stayed in a B&B. We wanted to share a double room and the landlord flatly refused. He had never met gay people in his life and wasn't about to encourage 'that sort of thing' under his roof.
My friend kicked off but I totally understood where he was coming from.
Multi-cultralism and acceptance of alternative lifestyles is only really relevant in city areas.
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meiah
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My first instinct was to say that the B&B owner is small minded....but then I stopped.
Actually, I understand where you are coming from, Raymond.
He may not understand, and was not trying to tell you how to live your life, he just didn't want any part of it.
I don't really think there is anything wrong with having your own views and opinions and lifestyle, as long as you don't force them on someone else.
Yes he was acting from a position of ignorance (potentially), but I don't pretend to know everything about everything. I may well try and understand, but equally, there are times when I am tired, or just don't want that discussion right now. I wouldn't expect to be condemned for that.
OK, it may sometimes be a small village mentality, but funnily, you quite often find that in small villages, people are happy to live and let live, as long as it doesn't impact on them.
I remember quite clearly when my ex's brother started dating a coloured girl. Granny invited them over for dinner, and then panicked because she didn't know what coloured people ate, and so asked me. I stopped myself from laughing, because all Granny wanted was to cook something nice that everyone would enjoy, and not to cause offense.
It was actually quite sweet, but someone else may have found that question offensive.
We all stand the risk of putting our foot in it when we step outside of what we know, and sometimes, we just don't want that battle / discussion / hassle.
Thats not close minded, its just normal.
I can honestly say that I have no experience of Hindu's and Hinduism. My views, such as they are, are based entirely on hearsay. Does that make me ignorant? Yes, it does. But don't condemn me for that. Given an opportunity that arises naturally, I will learn, but don't necessarily expect me to seek our opportunities to educate myself. I will if I choose to.
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beantighe
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I have to say I'm surprised and delighted at your responses, Raymond and Meiah. I admit I read with bated breath, as this subject (or something very similar) came up on another forum I'm on, almost a year ago.
I pointed out then that I'd never been in a position to meet ethnic minorities and gay people years ago, as I was brought up in the wilds of the countryside far away from any other people.
I tried to explain about my parents' extremely rigid views and prejudices, and tried to convey the effect they had on me as a child, when I had nothing to compare what they said with. How could I know any different, when I was just a child and only had my parents' say-so to go on?
I thought I was being honest, and what I really wanted was for people with more knowledge than I to explain things and put me right. Instead, I was crucified and called everything under the sun, including a bigot. It really did upset me terribly, as I've spent my adult life trying to keep an open mind and not let myself be influenced by the things my parents (especially mother) said.
My point was, that no-one should punish a child for not being able to read, for instance, when that child has never been taught. So yes, there are many things I am ignorant of - so teach me, don't blame me.
Raymond, your story about the B&B was very familiar. There was a report on the local TV news some time ago about the exact same thing, where a landlord of a B&B somewhere down here in the West Country wouldn't let two gay men have a double room. I think they sued him for discrimination (can't think what the proper term is.)
So thank you both for your understanding.
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Raymond
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That's the difference. If people are ignorant because they don't know something then they can't be condemned, if they are ignorant because they choose to be then that's something completely different.
I had another situation just the other week in work. They've just taken on a new group of people and these trainees are about to go into their new teams.
One of the trainees is a gay man. Last Friday they were told which teams they were going in and the new gay man was going into Team 4.
I was in the staff room on that day and a few members of Team 4 were talking about the new trainee and one of them (a black man) said "We've already got two of them (meaning gay people) in our team, we don't need any more!"
I had a go at him for saying it but his reaction was like that of a kicked puppy. He had no idea he had said anything wrong.
I had a word with his manager and asked him to have a friendly word and remind the fella that things like that are very inappropriate to say in the workplace.
This week I found out the man is facing the sack for gross misconduct. So I've been doing my best to defend him and save his job.
I think he should be told that he made a mistake but I certainly don't think his mistake warrants him losing his job.
He's a devout christian black man and never had any personal experience with gay people in his life, of course he's going to have opinions like that.
Hopefully, if I can help save his job his opinions may change.
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david hobbs
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I certainly do hope you save his job
I know how I would feel if I had caused him to lose his livelihood even by mistake
Political correctness Phaah
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beantighe
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I hope you can save his job, too, Raymond. It was an innocent mistake, and who of us can honestly say we haven't ever fallen into a similar trap unwittingly? Maybe not all of us, but surely a great many.
What really fires me up is the way political correctness has completely destroyed all common sense. For the management to have had a friendly word and explained things to this man would have been the right and sensible thing to do, and there needn't have been any more fuss. But to treat him as they have is taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It's way over the top and has to take the biscuit for crass stupidity.
It's ironic that someone who is a devout Christian, but has made a mistake, should end up being defended by a witch!
I think there's more than one lesson to be learned here!
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Raymond
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I can see why the manangement are taking it as seriously as they are. If I had said "Haven't we got enough of them" and I was talking about black people, then I would have been sacked on the spot.
They can't be seen to take that stance on issues of race but not on issues of sexuality.
Of course, everyone has the right to have whatever opionons they wish, just don't bring them into the workplace.
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david hobbs
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Was a time you could bring things into the work place and then you had to sort them out.
Like human beings and not like a bunch of mind controlled school kids.
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beantighe
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I think it is mind control, David. Quite honestly, I don't think management should have got involved at all - they should have kept their noses out. If someone said something to somebody else that offended them, then it's a matter for those two people to sort out without any outside interference. Common sense again. Running to the management is just the same as running to tell tales to the teacher. We are treated like children by constant state interference, so we behave like children.
We'll have to get a form signed in triplicate to wipe our own noses soon.
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david hobbs
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Well whilst we are allowed to play on the internet it keeps us away from actually doing anything about it.
This country and most of the people in it have slowly but surely had their identity and pride in themselves and where they live removed.
I truly feel that this has been a deliderate erosion over many many years and it is still being eroded little bit at a time.
Tell me the difference between what is being done to this man about to lose his job and what happens to people in a police state.
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beantighe
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None whatsoever, David. I've been saying that for ages - we live in a police state.
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david hobbs
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Yes and a very clever one at that.
Nothing obvious about it at all until you actually take a look at what has changed over the years.
I can see it but of course if you are young then it is all that you have ever known and so it is the norm.
Very sad.
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beantighe
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And very true.
It's really frightening, as I can see this country becoming more and more like the book 1984. We've already got Big Brother watching every movement, poking and prying into every area of our lives. We're the most watched country in the world, and no wonder there was outcry when Google wanted to photograph every single street in the land, until they had to give people a number to contact if they wanted themselves or their vehicles airbrushed off these 'virtual' streets.
We are all constantly bombarded and brainwashed by state propaganda - soon it won't be long before they are locking up 'dissidents'. It's getting more like the old communist Russia every day.
You're right - young people today have never known anything else, so they think this is normal, heaven help them. And heaven help us all.
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david hobbs
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Perhaps it's evolution and I am just a dinosaur I do hope so.
Perhaps we do need to get our balls back and I see Bravo's new party as just the vehicle for the job.
How long I wonder before the big disinformation machine gets revved up and we begin to hear stories about it's leaders that will look just right on the front page of the Sun news paper.
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Raymond
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He's keeping his job! There was a bog meeting today about it and I was called in and asked if I was offended by his comments.
I told the truth. At the time I said I was shocked but when I realised he didn't say them with malice I wasn't offended.
Not that I would have been offended anyway. I'd love to meet a real homophobe to have a good old ding-dong with.
Everyone's too scared to voice thier real opinions these days.
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david hobbs
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There was a bog meeting today !!!!!!!
How very appropriate 
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Raymond
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A bog meeting???
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david hobbs
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| Raymond wrote: | | A bog meeting??? |
Look in your last post.
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david hobbs
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Talking about meeting Homophobs one of my friends is a total homophobe.
A year ago he met his long lost brother.
Guess what.
You've guessed it haven't you?
His brother was gay.
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | | Raymond wrote: | | A bog meeting??? |
Look in your last post. |
Oh yeah, I meant big. Although it may as well have been in the bog.
I love stories like that. Whenever I meet homophobes like that I often say to them, what if one of your kids turn out gay?
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david hobbs
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Thing is Ray,he is no longer a homophobe.
He loves his brother and his brothers partner to bits.
The simple reason was that he had never had anything to do with gay people until he met his brother and had no choice but to communicate.
Then as with many things in life having gained experience he wondered what all the fuss was about.
And isn't that just one of the biggest lessons in judgement you could ever have?
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beantighe
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That's just it, David. We fear what we don't know.
Until about 10 years ago, I'd never met any gay people. They just hadn't figured in my life, and I didn't really even think about it.
Then, just after I moved down here, I met a gay man called Paul, who was a druid. He and his partner Jonathan came to my house for a sort of mini-moot, as Paul was very knowledgeable and very interesting, and I knew I could learn a lot from him.
However, his partner Jonathan wasn't really pagan, and I could see he had a terrible jealous streak. Whenever Paul and I were talking, he would butt in and change the subject to something completely inconsequential, like the colour of my carpet. It made it very frustrating trying to talk to Paul.
Paul seemed to take to me, and one day he arrived unexpectedly on my doorstep one teatime, black and blue and covered in bruises, and in tears. He'd had a fight with his partner over his jealousy, and Jonathan had smashed up all his pagan things before beating Paul up.
Of course, I was so sorry for him - just the same as if it had been a straight relationship, and dispensed tea and sympathy, along with a listening ear. It seemed to be what he needed at the time.
Later on I found out that Paul had gone back to live with his mother in another part of the country, and I never saw him again.
Actually, the fact that they were vegetarians gave me more difficulty than the fact that they were gay! The time they came round for tea, I gave them a cheesy vegetable pasta, and they were quite happy with that!
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david hobbs
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We are what we are by a quirk of nature and only by a quirk of nature.
How absurd to judge another because their quirk is different to our own.
But thats what we do.
I am speaking not of a persons actions although to a large extent that is the result of all of the quirks that went into making them what they are,but rather peoples appearance or level of intelligence.
To me nothing could be more stupid and nothing is more difficult to conquer in myself.
But I do try when I catch myself doing it.
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