Torture

david hobbs · Torture

We have a lot of different shades of opinion on here and I thought that as the subject of torture was in the news that I would ask what you think of the subject.

Not torture in general ,but specifically one nations agents torturing another nations subjects to gain supposed information to aid in security.

Is it right or is it wrong?

Bravo

It's wrong on two counts.

1. The affront to humanity.
2. The information gleaned is not reliable, people will say whatever they think the torturer wants to hear just to get it to stop.

Now, if we are talking torture as a means of punishment for such as child murderers, I am all for it.

Raymond

I agree to a point with Bravo, physical torture for people such as rapist and child molesters is ok with me. Why should they be allowed to destroy people's lives and not have anything done back to them? They sit in a comfortable cell with their play stations and televisions and basically get away scott-free for the dreadful things they have done.

Torture for information, hmmm, on the face of it I can see why they would want to do it.
It's quick, easy and relatively cheap. It is however, as Bravo points out, extremely un-reliable.

If the torturer has plenty of time to gain his information then personally I don't have too much of a problem with mental torture.

I've always thought mental punishment is far more effective than physical punishment anyway.

Any good parent will know that taking away a teenagers' mobile phone or computer has much more of an effect on the wayward teenager than a smack.

Stripping a person of their hope, their faith, their belief can have quite an effect. If you systematically and over a period of time remove from a person everything they ever clung to, they'll tell you whatever you want to know.

For the purposes of intelligence gathering however, you have to look at the situation in hand before you can make a decision.

Take the current situation on Afganistan as an example. Obviously our people are gathering intelligence every day over there, but then so too are the Taliban.
You can bet your life that when one of 'our boys' are captured by the other side, Mr. Taliban doesn't play by the Queensbury rules.
So let's give them a taste of their own medicine - if for no other reason than we can.

Bravo

their

Just so you know mate, it's ei

Think 'ei ei o' (old McDonald)

Please continue

Raymond

What are you talking about?

Bravo

Ignore me, I'm just wittering

Raymond

Please don't witter Bravo. Hobbs does enough of that for all of us.

evergreen

its wrong but after what happened here in the last few days there are a few people I'd like to torture to make them get the hell out of my life....

oh and there have been some terrorist discovered and I hope they don't' torture them.. to get info .. but if that is how they can get info then I understand why they do it .. remember these people too kill innocent person children and the like... remember war isn't' pretty its not about being nice it is ultimately about survival and protection

Raymond

Great post EG! I agree 100%

white wolf

war is ruthless
and it takes ruthless men to wage it.

ww

Raymond

I would say ruthless or desperate.

It depends how much you believe in whatever it is you're fighting for.

white wolf

True.........................

we were taught that there be only one maxim not subject to change...
to inflict the max death and destruction on the enemy in the minimum ammount of time.

war is hell.

ww

Raymond

david hobbs

Raymond

Yes of course.

Among other things war maintains the balance of power. We all bitch and moan about America holdong all the cards and being the 'super power' but answer this honestly, who would we all rather have in charge, America or some tin-pot dictator in the middle east?
I know who I support.

david hobbs

Raymond

No further comment.

You're not going to drag me into another one of your crackpot conspiracies Hobbs.

billy nomates

raymond you are soooooooooooooooooooooooo funny!

you talk about debating issues yet all you want is for everyone to massage your ego and agree with you!

the cia are responsible for the murder of millions of people all around the world.imho that doesn't make them better than any other criminal nutter.

open your eyes!

Raymond

david hobbs

Don't show me the evidence my mind is made up.

You chastised me for saying that but in this instance it sums up your attitude perfectly.

I do take your point about you not being able to change things but information in enough quantity and quality does change things.

Also as a witch I am amazed to hear you utter such a nonsense.

How's about spending just one hour and taking a peek at the history of just one of the wars that I mention.

Thing is war is mostly fought for power and greed.

Not yours or mine but for the benefit of others.

Bravo

We're still ruling the roost. That's right, little old Great Britain.

Everyone thinks it's America. But look who does all our fighting for us...

You don't have a dog and bark yourself, now do you?

david hobbs

As much as I hate war I admire and respect our soldiers.

A soldier has a job to do and our boys do it well.

But why do we do it for the yanks?

billy nomates

just why are we ie britain involved in two wars alongside the u.s?

we have a so called labour party which traditionally hates the yanks and are pacifists.............

but we really are the 'poodles'..........
we do everything the yanks say whether kidnapping or extraditing the nat west boys or gary mckinnon( i am not judging their guilt/innocence)...

somebody like mc brown or peter the commie would be natural haters of the u.s. and would view mao or leninas heroes (ask dianne abbott)..............so as the yanks themselves would say 'follow the money'.......

i wonder which oil companies will benefit from building a massive pipeline across afghanistan? i wonder how many congressmen and mps will make a financial gain? we need a new Woodward and Bernstein.

Raymond

billy nomates

now there's a good idea..........gb+usa invade the cheese eating surrender monkeys!!!!!!!!!!

Raymond

Invade the French?

Now there would be a pointless war.

Anyway, they'd surrender before we even got our boots on.

Bravo

It's just been on the news that the French have surrendered after seeing your post and dropped weapons just in case...

Raymond

We'd better shut up now. Hunter will get the raving hump and do a Kas on us.

They're dropping like swine flu round here.

evergreen

I think that countries join the wars to ensure they are in a place of power when and if they need be- you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.. otherwise why would Australia be involved in anyway we are no threat to anyone and yet we are involved in more wars than the Brits or Us.. we have all the local Asian things that we over see.. and that is so we have some say in their political system... we are involved in New Guinea, Fiji, Indonesian, East Timor, Bali, as are part of the UN peace corp, Iraq, Afghanistan, we patrol all the arctic waters and the waters between us and Asia (which is immense) and I am sure there are others I knwo nothing about .... that is a lot of defense force activity for one small country of nearly 20 million...

I know that the middle east war was pre-planned I had something to do with some American marines when I was about 18, 19 so over 20 years ago now and at that time they all knew in the next few years they would be fighting in the middle east that was long before the two towers...

Raymond

A war with the middle east has been on the cards for a long time - one way or the other.
They wanted to play hard ball about their oil and the west couldn't allow that.

And before Hobbs or Billy start jumping up and down that isn't conspiracy it's common sense.

david hobbs

I think you may find that war has been a part of our relationship with the middle east for hundreds of years.

Even the Knights Templar went looking to see what they could steal from the remains of Solomons Temple and that has carried on ever since.

In an area where all of the major religions meet it will never be any different oil or not.

matt