to be or not to be... a victim

Diana · to be or not to be... a victim

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/200910...or-buckingham-palace-3fd0ae9.html

Now what amazes me is how she gets the nerve to scream 'rape' when she goes for a drink after midnight with 2 perfect strangers! Getting what she asked for is more like it.

swanlady

Diana

No means no but really has no meaning after you heat the fire. You lay your bed so lie in it.

swanlady

Diana

[quote="swanlady"]

swanlady

evergreen

no is no... so are these men victims to their animal instincts???

why is she wrong for trusting and them not wrong for raping.. ?

COME ON !!!!???

Raymond

I really don't want to wade into this argument because I can see both sides.

The other week when Jordan said she had been raped everybody (and I mean EVERYBODY) I know said the same thing; if you look, dress or act like a slut, you will be treated like one.

On the other hand, as a victim of rape myself, of course no should mean no.

evergreen

its like many things in life that people have opinions on.. until it happens to them they often can not understand...

rape is not about what the woman or man wears its about the power and control and abuse the rapist inflicts on the victim.... end of story

do you meat to say that if some bloke tried it on you because he had an itch then it is ok even if you don't want it for him to go ahead because after all you bad thing you are looking so good to him and he just cant' help himself..

Raymond

No of course not, but you have to admit, with some women it goes a little beyond just the clothes they wear.
She women, and you must have seen them EG, behave like nothing but tarts on a night out.
I'm not saying that because of that they deserve to get raped, nobody deserves to get raped, but if you behave in that manner it stands to reason that certain men are going to think you're a certain kind of woman, then if she suddenly says 'No No No' after basically laying it on a plate, the now aroused man will get angry.
What's the only outcome?

swanlady

evergreen

as long as we trial the victims instead of the rapists ... people not not speak of their experiences of rape...

swanlady

Raymond

Don't get me wrong! Rapists should be strung up by their nuts.

But if you leave your front door wide open you can't start crying because you've been burgled.

Diana

Diana

Diana

Diana

swanlady

I agree to totally disagree with your reasoning Diane.

evergreen

so now its wrong to go for a drink with strangers... how does anyone get anywhere in life with these rules...??

maybe she was guilty of being naive???

last time I heard that was not a crime - steep learning curve

so chances are you have never been raped Diane.. with such strong judgments on this?

evergreen

Waffle King

My Two Cents:

1)Rape is wrong
2)Even if she wasn't "raped" and still pleaded it, she'd win the court case
3)1am drinks with total strangers is, a wee bit wrong.
4)drinking affects judgement, so she might not of even been raped in the first place
5)I really can't see either side, for i am the only 18yo, Hormoned filled teenager, who doesn't actully have a sex drive, so either way, everyones right Big Grin

swanlady

evergreen

How about you actually read the report the men said they raped her numerous times....... she was lost in a city she was visiting ... they robbed her .. she was screaming... what more do we need to say...

it is very hard to convict someone of rape there needs to be a lot of evidence...

The story is as follows ..... :)

Two men have been jailed for raping a New Zealand backpacker in a brutal attack near Buckingham Palace.

Have your say: Australia and New Zealand

The terrified 20-year-old told London's Southwark Crown Court she was sure she would die during the sustained and vicious assault.

She had missed the last tube and was heading home on a night bus when she met self-confessed ringleader Ismail Acar, 21, and Callem Fearnehough, also 21.

She accepted a drink from them and then accompanied the pair to St James's Park, where she was subjected to the traumatic sexual attack.

As her "nightmare" unfolded, the pair took turns to rape her, the court heard.

"I can just remember crying and wailing 'please, please stop'," she told the jury.

Her first attempt to escape was foiled when she was quickly caught and her handbag taken.

Not long afterwards she made another dash for freedom, this time successfully, but had to abandon some of her clothing at the scene.

She ran to the end of the Mall, spotted a security guard barrier placed in readiness for last year's Olympic Handover ceremony and begged for help.

The pair were arrested near the scene.

Acar, of Six Acres Estate, Finsbury Park, north London, was jailed for 13 years.

He admitted three counts of rape on August 25 last year, one of assault by penetration and one of robbery.

Fearnehough, who lives on the same estate, was jailed for 10 years after being found guilty of two rape counts and the robbery.

Sentencing the pair, Judge Nicholas Loraine-Smith said: "This was a sustained and brutal attack by two men on a frail young woman.

"She was in her own words screaming and wailing all the time, and when she did run away, she was caught and brought back by one or other of you."

In a victim impact statement read to the court, the woman said: "This traumatic experience has changed my life forever and changed the lives of my family and I feel bad about that."

She added: "I went from being someone outgoing and who enjoyed life to someone who found it difficult to cope being around strangers."

billy nomates

personally i amazed it doesnt happen more often.i am not a prude in any way but most of the girls round here go out with very short skirts and their tits out (bloody marvellous) and somehow all manage to look like prozzies after spending hours getting ready!

But i think it shows that a lot of people do not respect others-they also think that they can do what they like.......

this girl didnt ask to be attacked and even if she was drinking with strangers then that is no justification.

having said that i have seen some girls that get so drunk they just havent a clue what they are doing..........i guess its all part of growing up as i used to do it myself ..one of my ex's broke her elbow on one occassion-her nose on another which gave her a big horizontal scar (and she was a very good looking girl) and also fell asleep on a bench in victoria park (london) and someone stole her shoes!

evergreen

often the women who dress like that Billy have many friends with them and often they can look after themselves... they dress like that because they feel good like that I suppose ... each to their own.... still no reason to be raped as you say

I'm sure it happens often... and we never hear about it

and I'm also sure many men would never entertain the thought of forcing themselves on someone who is screaming no...

Raymond

EG and Swanny, I know you think you're both taking the moral high-ground on this one and nobody is actually saying that it's ever justifyed to rape someone but at the end of the day, if a woman acts/dresses/speaks or behaves like a slag then that's exactly how she will be treated by a large number of the male population.

I see many well dressed and well behaved young women who are just as sexy (probably even more so) than the slappers who go round dressed like cheap crack whores.

Raymond

EG and Swanny, I know you think you're both taking the moral high-ground on this one and nobody is actually saying that it's ever justifyed to rape someone but at the end of the day, if a woman acts/dresses/speaks or behaves like a slag then that's exactly how she will be treated by a large number of the male population.

I see many well dressed and well behaved young women who are just as sexy (probably even more so) than the slappers who go round dressed like cheap crack whores.

Waffle King

Raymond

Being gay or straight is irrelivant. A LOT of men (gay or straight) have rape-based fantasies, either giving or receiving.

As you often say Waff, you're only 18. There's still tons of the human sexual responses you have to discover.

Waffle King

Not really, i know my mind better then you probally know yours, i've had alot of time to discover it and explore it, inside and out, as for sexual responses, duh, no sex drive, i have no need for them, they serve no purpose, i maybe an animal, but that doesn't mean i have to embrace my carnel desires

Raymond

Spoken like a true 18 year old.

You know fuck all!

What have you done? You're not even born yet.

evergreen

yikes Raymond... lol there are different levels of maturity not all 18 years olds are how you view them .... I think Waff is pretty intelligent for any age.. ;)

I have two brothers ... both very different both attracted to very different kinds of women and people in general ....

there are slutty men too 9as I am sure we all know) .. and I must say there is no bigger a turn off to me than some smooth bloke putting it out there but I don't think he deserves to be raped either

its not about a higher moral ground Raymond, well I don't think it is anyway, I just think that no one deserves to be raped.. and from my experience it is often not the tartly dress woman who gets raped but very often the innocent one who is perhaps naive.

Raymond

A bit of a generalisation there EG. All sorts of people can get raped, even prostitutes.

And once again I say, nobody here thinks it's ok for anybody to be raped.

However, there are some women (and men) who behave in a way that you can't help not being surprised if they do.

As for Waff, he may a fair amount of bookish-based knowledge but his experience of life and common sense is sorely lacking - which is quite normal for an 18 year old.
But there's nothing worse than an 18 year old making claims they've seen life or 'been there'.
Where have they been? What have they done? Nothing.

evergreen

all very true Raymond... and I know many 40 plus people making the same claim and they still know nothing.. just pointing out it has nothing to do with age.

Raymond

Yes true, but by sheer life experience alone a 40 year old would have been round the block a lot more than an 18 year old.

evergreen

you would think so... some people don't drive, pay bills, travel or work or even have their own bank accounts.. some people like by other peoples rules all of their life...

Raymond

I don't drive or travel. Is that wrong?

evergreen

not wrong Raymond , I mean nothing is wrong is it???

But you do you live on your own and you do things with your life some people just do what others tell them they never think for the,,selves.. thus Waff is perhaps ahead of them already

Raymond

I was under the impression Waff still lived at home. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

You can't even start to live until you leave home and make your own way in the world.

Diana

Diana

Diana

Raymond

I've always preferred trying to guess how someone looks naked.

Actually seeing them naked is almost always a disapointment.

Diana

sheelanagig

All I can say is that Trinny & Suzannah have empowered a lot of women to dress to show off their assets as a woman. To Look and feel sexy.

TV shows like this never expand on the dangers of women dressing as these so called experts promote and even demand.

These two women would bully and belittle women into dressing to to show off their bodies. Even older and larger women like myself.

Until the culture of promoting women's fashion as looking and feeling sexy is modified, these attacks on women and even some men will continue to happen and it will all be blamed on their percieved image.

Raymond

There's nothing wrong with placing importance on how you look Sheela.

I see literally thousands of people every day and to be perfectly honest I hope that even 10 years after physical death I don't look as bad as half of them.

Having a pride in how you look is a good thing. I wish more people had it.

billy nomates

i think that we have a bit of a victorian attitude towards sex in this country.....and lots of double standards........therefore we get a lot of weirdos .........

i lived in germany for 2 years.every town has a brothel.....you can go and get your rocks off for £20........(no i didnt) there is no stigma.......
they also have a different attitude to nudity.......they say it is natural/we are born without clothes.........

yet here we have the papers with topless girls on page 3 .........on page 4 they are going on about someone doing something disgusting.and page 5 a revealation by some 'celebrity' about how many blokes she shagged!

the daily mail-hilarious- has features that say 'she was almost naked' when a woman is wearing a bikini ffs!

because of this odd viewpoint/lack of respect/morons/no fear etc we have a situation where the imbeciles think they can do what they want...and generally can.........

we cant legislate for everything......and there will always be blokes that will do whatever-regardless of the consequences.

sheelanagig

There is looking good, and giving an open invitation with certain clothes, even if you think they make you look good.

Every one has their own perceptions about others looks.

So what seems a friendly sexy look to the person wearing what they consider sexy clothes, could seem like an open invitation to another person who perceives what they see differently.

I have large mamory glands, but I am never comfortable wearing low tops which expose them. If I find clothing I like that has a low neckline, I wear a dressy vest or t-shirt underneath that clothing.