Three Fold Law

Taz · Three Fold Law

Not being Wiccan, I don't particularly prescribe to the idea of the Three Fold Law as they see it.
However, I do believe in cause and effect.
What do other Witches think - is this something that only a Gardinarian or Alexandrian believe or do other folk adhere to this principle too?

beantighe

The Threefold Law is Wiccan, and I'm not Wiccan, nor even wiccan - there is a distinction, you see.

But - there are many variations on this theme: You reap what you sow, and What goes around, comes around being two of them.

These two I have found to be totally irrefutable. Everything in known existence is cyclical, both seen and unseen. Even the Earth is constantly revolving, but we don't get giddy! So that's a given. Then, as you say, Taz, there's the law of cause and effect: every cause has an effect, and every effect has a cause. That's also a given. The cyclic nature of everything is there to be observed, from the vast to the minute. Therefore, it logically follows that our actions, thoughts or words - which are all composed of energy - once put out 'there' - will certainly find their way back to us sooner or later. It's just the same as circumnavigating the earth - eventually you end up right back where you started.

So it is therefore completely logical to me to suppose that whatever energy we put out, whether positive or negative, will indubitably 'return to sender' and probably whack us on the back of the head when we least expect it. I've seen it happen, and I believe it totally.

This is nothing to do with the favourite Christian threat of 'Do as you're told, or God will punish you and you'll burn in Hell', or some such nonsence - it's the way the Universe works, and has done since the beginning of time.

So for me, no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Taz

Well said Beantighe!!

david hobbs

I think that as the question was about the three fold thingy that this concept is absolute nonsense.

Give out bad and it comes back three times as bad on you.

So what happens when you give out good then.

Do you win the lottery?

Once something natural takes on the religous aspect it becomes corrupt and just as daft as any other religion it seems to me.

Just mind games.

I could be wrong of course in which case at least three people will dissagreee.

Taz

Oh David, you do make me laugh!!!

david hobbs

So your'e number one them.

Come on you pagani's let's be having you.

Ha Ha what a cunning ruse to start a conversation.

Hey Hey they will never suss it out

To busy shopping for organic food and insense the lot of em!!

Taz

Give me a bit of GM food any day......!!

david hobbs

SHAME on you you witch

Oh hang on that's not an insult

Well Shame on you

Taz

Why, thank you Mr Hobbs.
Yep, I am one of those Witches who can't abide the PC carry on re hunting and GM foods.
I usually end up being told I'm not a 'proper' Witch as I wear leather, eat meat and don't agree with the ban on hunting and townies telling country folk what to do.
I'm a disgrace: I'll end up getting de-wanded one day if I'm not careful...

beantighe

Hmm......if disgraced priests are defrocked, then disgraced witches must be ordered to put their clothes on..................

My take on the law of cause and effect has nothing to do with a religious standpoint, David. For me, it's logical to think that way and therefore isn't anything to do with religion. It's just what makes the most sense to me, not because it's someone else's dogma.

Taz

Put clothes ON???
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
Oh the shame of not being able to 'work' skyclad............still, at least I'd have somewhere less uncomfortable to put my wand.....

david hobbs

Well you should have said.

I missed the logical bit.

So how do you feel when you get bad thoughts knowing that thoughts are energy as is everything and that you are going to be blasted for having those bad thoughts.

Well it's only logic.

I think.

Taz

Wiccans can be all love and light sometimes: I'm not a Wiccan so it doesn't apply as far as I am concerned.
If I had to do something that other people thought was wrong, in order to protect me and mine then I would.
In a heartbeat.
I would not hesitate to deal with something that was causing or might cause harm.
You could say that many things go against the Three Fold Law: I really don't think that the Witches/Wise Folk of old went about worrying about this kind of thing.
It's another example of Uncle Gerald and his 'elder writings'

Cause and effect from a scientific perspective, that I can relate to and I agree that you reap what you sow but it's nothing to do with being good....just in case!

david hobbs

So am I right in thinking that you believe what goes around comes around but that you would harm another person for seemingly reasonable needs.

Not being pedantic I hope but doesn't the very fact that you think that way attract problems?

Taz

Nope, not at all.
A responsible practitioner rarely acts in a knee jerk manner and I would exhaust mundane options before considering magickal ones.....the majority of the time.
For instance, if I thought some old trout was showing a bit too much interest in my old man I would deal with it in the usual time honoured manner. If after doing this she was still sniffing about I would use magick to send her packing. That doesn't mean I would harm her - that's where people get it wrong: magick does not HAVE to involve hurting a person as there are a multitude of methods of working to get a required result.
If however someone wad actively seeking to harm someone, ie drugs, abuse, threats of violence, causing serious distress etc then I would not hesitate to use magick to stop them. Again, you don't HAVE to use magick to harm them, there are plenty of things that can be done without resorting to that.
I suppose for me it depends on the reason and it comes down to cause and effect again. An old teacher of mine used to say 'if in doubt, do nowt but if you're sure let the magick roar'.
That's one of the reasons I object to newbies jumping straight in without any kind of substance behind them. The majority probably wouldn't be able to raise a smile let alone raise and direct the energies needed but some might and without some kind of magickal compass to guide them they could cause problems that other people then have to undo.
Cause and effect....

david hobbs

I enjoyed reading that as it makes sense but the question was related to thought ie thinking bad thougts, and not doing bad deeds.

Do we get it back if we just think about doing bad things. After all I have read here many times that thoughts are living things and to me the begining of everything including majic it thought.

Please don't think badly of me for asking these questions?

Taz

Why would anyone think badly of you?!
In my opinion, for what it's worth, I think that if someone focuses their mind on sending out a negative thought then there can be an effect.
However, I don't personally believe that thoughts that pop in and out of our heads, randomly or not, have the same effect.
I might be having a chat with my Mum and get momentarily irritated and that thought is then out there. I don't think that would have an effect. There again I might be sitting talkng to that old trout I mentioned earlier and be thinking something unpleasant and if I kept focusing on it I think it would hang about rather than disperse: that could potentially have an entirely different result.
As I said though, this is only my take on it!!
Big Grin

david hobbs

Well your take is as good as anyones in fact I would go so far as to say that your take almost reaches my own lofty standards so well done for a girly wirly.

Now whats she thinking and will it bounce back and give her a head ache?

Ha another cunning ruse!!!!

Taz

Sorry David, being blonde that went right over my head....

david hobbs

That's all right Darlin

I just wish you were here so I could pat your hand.

Just don't worry your pretty little head with such things OK.

Taz

I just knew you'd understand!

Raymond

A load of nonsense, all of it.

Any 'witch' who abides by these silly rules isn't really a witch at all. I don't know what they are but they certainly are not a witch.

This three-fold law thing is silly. Not to mention simplistic and childish. Do something bad and it will come back three times, who ever made up such a thing? Oh yeah, Gerald Gardner.

Life's too short to worry about the outcome of your actions and worry if bad things are going to happen to you as a result of them, NEWS FLASH!!! Bad things will happen to you anyway.

So do whatever you have to do to get the things you want and to always get your own way.
Too bad if you step on other people's toes along the way, they should learn the craft too them they would know how to stop you, if they don't know - tough!

Taz

Uncle Gerald has a lot to answer for...

david hobbs

Oh that's it blame the men you women why don't you.

At least Gerald did something positive.

Thank Christ i'm out of the nice room

Phew!!!!!

beantighe

Trouble is, a great many pagans and witches think his words are graven in stone and that Uncle Gerald's way is the Only True Way. Thus some Wiccans can be as bad as Christians for dogma.

Taz

Yep, the old chap knicked bits and bobs from all over the place and made it all into Ye Olde Worlde Wiccan Lore.
He was a right old rascal, getting all those nubile young things to work skyclad as in 'days of old'.......yeah, right!

david hobbs

Taz

The extended and formal Pagan community is heaving with con artist, bullies, know it alls, fake Priestesses and Priests, pretenders who run Pagan shops to make a vast profit, pompous self styled 'elders' and in fighting.
The whole Wiccan versus wiccan argument is based upon snobbery about being able to trace initiatory lineage back to Gardiner or Saunders: it sounds very 'apostolic' if you ask me!!!
Cynical?
Moi?
You bet!!!

Raymond

You're right Taz but I'm sure Uncle Gerald would turn in his grave if he saw some of the things that go on in the pagan community.

We mustn't bash him though. Whether you follow his teachings or not it must be remembered that without him a lot of the craft's ways we know and love wouldn't be as avaliable as they are. The old elitist witches would have kept them to thmeselves and by now the craft would be all but dead.

We owe him a debt of gratitude at least.

It does annoy me when I speak to young pagans and pagans from other countries who have never even heard of him. Grrr!

Taz

I don't disagree, he collated information that might otherwise have been lost forever and forged the way for the freedom that many Pagans take for granted today.
It's a bit like Jesus (calm down dear!): I don't think he was a bad bloke, the comments attributed to him make a lot of sense. Then he goes and gets himself crucified and the Christian PR machine rolls into action. The resulting church is probably something that he himself would preach against if he were about today.
Gerald Gardiner and, later, Alex Saunders brought the Craft into the open, within the reach of those who heard the call of the Goddess but didn't know how to answer Her.
It is a tad disheartening that newbies often jump straight in a the magick end of the Craft without looking at those who founded modern Witchcraft and laid the groundwork and formed the heaving mass of traditions and folklore into a living, breathing body.

I still think he was a saucy old so and so though...

Raymond

Taz

Yes indeed, where would Wicca, and Witches generally, be without Doreen Valiente......