Thick kids

Raymond · Thick kids

I heard on the radio over the past few days that the government are thinking of scraping the 6 week Summer holiday for school children and letting them have a 4 week holiday instead with the other 2 weeks at another time in the year.

It probably is time for the 6 weeks holiday to go because it was introduced in the early part of the last century so kids could help their parents' at harvest time (child labour basically) but now we live in a society where if a child makes it's own bed in the morning it's considered child abuse - so why do they still need such a long holiday.

However, the reason the government gives for reducing the holiday is because teachers have noticed a drop in reading skills when the kids returned from their 6 weeks off.

Is it me?

No really.

Are our young so thick that they forget how to read in just 6 weeks???

And why are parents allowing their little angels to go 6 whole weeks without reading anything?

I am increasingly convinced that it's probably a good thing I don't have children.
I would make them read something every day and that probably constitutes abuse.

david hobbs

I wonder what teachers noticed this drop in reading skills.

Reading is the basis on which most education is based.

I never read a book until I was sixteen years of age, and then I never stopped reading. I often wonder what might have been had my parents encouraged me to read at an early age.

It is up to parents to teach their children to enjoy reading, and that starts with stories being read to them at an early age.

It won't happen of course because many are to bone idle to take the time to read to their kids and after all they might miss East Enders.

Bravo

I read from a very early age, there are some great books for kids out there. My favourite book as a lad was 'A Coral Island' by RM Ballantyne (I think, similar name anyway), though I loved Hitchcock Three Investigator books and the 'Jennings' series by Anthony Buckeridge.

evergreen

it is true you will get children who come back from holidays forgetting how to read or how to do their sums... I don't think the two weeks less will stop that... I think some kids forget things over night they are still learning and growing ... Raymond there are many parents who dont' read and their children are more acedemic than them..... and there are unfortunately families where reading is not at all encouraged the old didn't do me any good attitude

Our christmas break is 9 weeks .... so what is happening to our kids. The biggest complaint I hear from parents is that it is to long to find someone to look after your children. No harm in making some changes personally I love the longer holiday gives me time to bond more with the kids as they age.

Waffle King

The 6 weeks holiday in my oppinion is probally a life line to kids (being a former child myself by 2 years anyway) the 6 weeks, was the prize for working hard at school all year, a time to relax get away, before the next term started, the drop in reading and mathmatical skills is to be expected, but it's not like the teachers don't earn enough to brush them up a bit is it?

Raymond

A prize for working hard at school all year?
Starting at 9am finishing at 3:30pm with an hour for lunch in between is your idea of working hard?
Goodness me, I wish I only worked that hard.

Bravo

I would love to be working as hard as I was at school again, I really would.

Raymond

Me too Bravo. It wasn't until I left school and strarted working that I realised what a piece of pee school really is.
Blimey what a culture shock I had.

david hobbs

Raymond

I always said that school is a pile of poo.
It teaches nothing useful. It was only in the past few years that I learned how to change a plug.
All school really needs to do is get kids to a level where they can read, write and do sums.
Obviously there will be kids who are academic and naturally they should be encouraged in the particular subject they are good at but less academic kids should be taught basic skills needed for life.
How to cook, how to hang wallpaper, how to iron a shirt etc and they should be taught how to get the best job they possibly can.
I remember I spent two years learning about the Irish potato famine, and what a useful knowledge that has proven to be.

david hobbs

I could not agree more.

What use teaching a guy who has a natural feel for carpentry the history of the second world war.

laura

i despair of the education system at the moment.... i really don't understand the reason for the need to change the way are children are taught........ take maths for example...what was wrong with the way we were taught to add subtract and divide (in column method) now children are completely confused with needing to understand different ways of doing mental maths... duh? why? all it does is lengthen the mental process if not confuse altogether , with the sum total that kids at the age of eleven are unable to work out basic maths...... and all because the government needs to devise a new way of testing our children and adding extra pressure on everyone concerned ...grrrr!
doesn't it speak volumes to the government that university courses are needing to be extended in certain subjects (sciences) because the students are coming out with qualifications that are not to a high enough standard to start the degree courses...... hallo!!.... why dont they drop all these stupid changes to the education system and get back to the good ol' basics of the three R's ....maybe then our children would stand a chance.

david hobbs

It's a bit like the paranormal.

Lot's of theory and not enough practice to see what happens.

Government departments have to do something to justify their position, and over blown salaries, and pensions, so they tinker.

Why fix it if it ain't broke?

laura

david hobbs

I have been thinking about the thick kids thing, and surely there is no difference in the intelligence levels of each generation It must be education that is failing.

But why is it failing?

evergreen

Do you honestly think kids are thick.. I don't' at all they have far more knowledge than we had as children (well me) they learn about different things...

I think the home education is letting us all down and children don't' know how to cook and do day to day things because we are all too busy trying to earn money to feed ourselves...

I was driving a car at 11 on the farm but my kids there is no way I would be letting them do that we wrap them in cotton wool now there are rules and regulations for everything.... we hardly let them think for themselves and we rarely allow them to make mistakes we do everything for them.. they aren't thick we are thinking for them THAT to me is the injustice of today

I use to go out in the country side all day and come back at dark, if that was to happen now the police would be looking for the child times have changed- not young people :)

Raymond

I think kids today (listen to me! I swore I would never, ever use the phrase 'kids today'

) anyway, I think kids today are lacking in basic things like grammer, spelling and punctuation.
Take my 16 year old sisiter for example, if I have a problem with my computer or some other piece of technical stuff she would be the first person I would phone, however just last weekend I had to explain to her the correct places to use THERE, THEIR and THEY'RE when writing, I also had to explain the correct usage of apostrophies.
Youngsters aren't taught the importance of correct grammer and punctuation anymore, instead they are taught that so long as they get the point across it doesn't matter how they do it.
I know young people who regularly use 'da' instead of 'the' in a sentence. Is it me or this just wrong?
I think basic things like that (or at least I consider good English to be 'basic') kids today are sorely lacking.

evergreen

times have changed.... much to our horror

but then the number of typing mistakes I make is terrible too - I think that they aren't taught it because the idea is that the computer will correct it

well I am a living example that shows that doesnt' work

Raymond

I think most of us can put our hands up to the odd spelling mistake, especially when typing on a computer.
The point I'm making is about grammer and punctuation.
You say times have changed. Does that mean we have to completely abandon the correct usage of our language?
I can't believe how somebody can reach 16 years of age, go through the entire education system and not know how to correctly use an apostrophe.
Maybe I'm turning into an old fuddy-duddy in my old age but I think it speaks volumes about our education system.

Bravo

I think it's the political system that is to blame.

Education secretary is basically a rung on the political ladder towards home secretary/foreign secretary then on to chancellor then PM.

So everyone that gets the post wants to look as though they are innovative and forward thinking...not scared to change, full of vision etc etc etc etc etc

In short, every bugger that gets the job has to fiddle with the system, when this system does not need fiddling with (well it does now, it just needs to be brought back to where it was).

david hobbs

Common sense has gone.

Being a poser rules.

Isn't everything the same these days?

look at me, aren't I just the bee's knees

Five minutes of fame is what people seem to want.

I was a presenter on a TV sales channel for three years doing one hour live shows and when I worked the county shows people would ask for my autograph.

What a joke. I was embarrassed.

I was there for the money.

Their money.

I sold doormats for Christ's sake.

evergreen

David !

I'm not easy on my kids for one second and I'll be the first to admit I am tearing my hair out at what they are not being taught.... being a good student myself and being a teacher adds to the horror I feel with what they cannot do.

What has given way to a smile is I recall my father keeping me in all weekend to make sure I learned my times tables and had long division down pat .... I recall the horror he went through about me and I always aced things at school.

My girls are like that top of the school and I still think they are way behind where I was - It just makes me wonder if it is this bad or is it a case that I am living in a fantasy (which by the way is entirely possible some days). I think standards have dropped things have been added to makes the teachers day a hell of lot more challenging with children learning things we learned at home (can you tell I taught )

As for the grammar Raymond there was a school of educational thought that came into power during the 80's/9-'s that threw grammar out the door labelled it pointless and outdated and said that young people needed to learn all things through expereience and teachers were not to poiint out what young people did "wrong" all negative statements were "banned" in the system - I believe that slowly this created an era of schooling where children were extremely disadvantaged many children if they spell some thing the first time will remember it that way for ever so if it is wrong to begin with, then they have no hope. Many of those children who went through during this system are now teachers and the whole things is going round in circles with no one taking control of the system and saying what is actually working and isn't.

david hobbs

I have several friends who used to teach and were good at it.

They have all left the profession and found other jobs.

Tell's the story really.

Ministers trying to improve performance at any cost to further their careers and to hell with the pupils

Waffle King

It's all about the money

but being a kid i can only back what the kids think (which at my age is mostly about sex, and why i'm not getting any despite being able to tell the difference between a delta wave and an alpha wave)

david hobbs

Waffle King

Nah it's OK David, i've already been thru with an inflatable girlfriend this year, but thanks for the offer

meiah

(sigh) I wasn't quick enough to join this before it degenerated (long word).

I have my reasonable head on tonight (sounds like a female Worzel Gummidge). Some of the changes in education have actually been a good thing. Children now get to start school in year R. There is more access to pre-school. Phonetic reading is a superb tool....but it needs to be backed up with the rules, ie "I before E except after C" (mostly).
There are different ways of working with numbers, and so each child should be able to work the way that makes most sense to them, and understand the method.

Having said that, under the current Government initiative "Train2Gain", every adult without a level 2 qualification ie 5 GCSE's A*-C grade (or O'Levels in old money) can get a free Level 2 NVQ and extra help with English and Maths.
My students used to be mostly "older" folks, 40 and above. Over the last year, I am seeing a lot more people in thier early 20's.

It obviously all went wrong, but at least there is free support for those who want it.

david hobbs

There is also the fact that some people want to learn and some just don't

Waffle King

I like what you're saying there Meiah, but talking about the GCSE's and O Levels has given me a stand point so to speak. (only joking, i just love talking about myself.)

I've got no GCSE's no O Levels, i've not even got an 8th Grade education, but does that make me thick?

meiah

No Waff. It means you don't fit the profile

Waffle King

And why don't i fit the profile? apparently all kids are thick, so i should, correct?

Raymond

I don't think "thickness" has anything to do with academic qualifications. I only have 3 GCSE's and I certainly wouldn't consider myself as thick.
Being thick (like so many situations in life) has more to do with your attitude and out look.
I see so many people of my age and younger who seem only to be interested in where their next bottle of booze is coming from or who they shagged last night.
The concept of improving themselves and making their lives better seems to be totally alien to them.
Learning things like basic English skills and basic mathematics really isn't difficult.
You don't even have to join some fancy government, politically driven scheme, you can teach yourself.
Being "thick" stems from people who genuinely believe that good English doesn't matter.

meiah

Once again, we have a judgement as to what is thick and what isn't.

My girls Grandad left school as soon as he could, does not have a high level of education, nor does he want one. He writes when he has to, and then in simple words with the minimum of punctuation. He has no interest at all in "bettering" himself.
He is one of the most fascinating, freethinking people I know. Rarely passes judgement on anyone. He has so knowing and so little knowledge. Talk to him about almost anything, especially plants, nature and he has a knowing that comes from experience. Do any sort of energy work with him, and he is so in tune with himself that he knows precisely what is happenning from within himself and beyond, and phrases it in ways that are so deep because of their honesty and simplicity. He has no need to explain himself, because he knows himself.

That isn't being thick.

So what is?

Waffle King

Meiah, i'd call it being human, at the end of the day, who the hell are we to say who is thick and who isn't? it's not right nor fair, school isn't all that great, i hated it, so what i've got no GCSE's, tenner says i know more about the cosmos and most science related subjects then my old school teacher

meiah

No way would I take that bet, Waff

. You have more thoughts, and more interests than many people.

And yes, you are right. Human. With all our faults and strengths.

Thickness is a comparison, nothing more.

david hobbs

Saying that other people are thick makes us feel better about ourselves.

My deceased father in law was thick but his wisdom was immense.

He didn't need the Gettysburg address to make his point. Just a few wise words.

Or perhaps there is a difference between thick and being simple.

By simple I mean unsophisticated.

Raymond

What a ridiculous conversation, but for what it's worth I shall continue.

I am not applying the term "thick" to people who don't have O or A levels, nor am I applying it to people who wise or deep thinkers.
It doesn't even apply to people who may be regarded as 'simple'.

Thick people are the kind of people who usually spend the best part of their lives on some kind of benefit that the rest of us have to work and pay for.
The biggest event in their lives is getting shagged by other thick people, the biggest achievment in their lives is spitting out thick babies who will eventually end up on benefit and the whole process will start again.

And before there are any back-handed comments about me thinking I am better than these people I suggest you all save your breath because yes, I am better than these people.

david hobbs

I see you are warming to the topic Raymond.

I don't mind giving a few quid the the lazy sods in this world.

It leaves room for me to get ahead of the game while they lay in bed all day although I would rather they had nothing.

I suppose it takes all sorts. I have worked since I was a young boy starting with knocking on doors selling things. Em, who's the mug I wonder, me or them. Don't answer that question

I blame the system. it is so soft that there will always be people willing to take advantage of it.

Raymond

There will always have to be 'a system' because there will always be genuine cases where people cannot work through no fault of their own and I'm glad we live in a country where people like that are taken care of and given a helping hand when it's needed.

I am sick to death of seeing these lazy chavs swanning about with a can of lager in their hand at two o'clock in the afternoon doing noting productive in clothes I could never afford.

I've worked ever since leaving school and these scumbags seem to think it's their right to have the rest of us keep them.

Stop the benefit and let the swine starve. That would do all of us a favour.

Bravo

They call them 'NEETs'

Not in
Education
Employment or
Training

To me, if you're a NEET, and showing no signs of getting off your backside, then National Service it is. Off you go then.

Raymond

There's one problem with that Mr. Bravo.
I have a number of friends in all 3 of the services and I've had this conversation with many of them in the past and quite frankly, they don't want them.
They wouldn't want that kind of person watching their backs in a conflict situation.
Can't blame them really.
If these people can't even manage to hold a reasonable conversation then I don't think I'd want them holding a loaded gun.

Waffle King

So i've now gone from thick to a NEET then, great one!

I don't take the governments money, i'm not in work or training, mainly because i can't do any of the 3, due to the fact that i suffer from a serious case of S-A-D (sev anxiousity disorder) which basical means my brain is incabable of functioning correctly in an any environment (i'd like to add, i'm not making this up, i have the legal/medical documentation to prove this) there is no cure, unless i get a brain transplant, which is unlikely, my disorder combined with the insomnia classes me as disabled, so ladies and gents, you say it's not fair on you to pay for the NEETs and lazy b******s in this world, do us mentally defected people come into your way of thinking? does that make you better then me Raymond? cos i'm incapable of working? no it doesn't cos at the end of the day i'm me, i'm 17 and producing a fair arguement (using myself as an example, best way in my oppinion) and making you all think, so, what does it make me then? i'm not capable of working, yet i still try and work, i have to rely on the system to support me (even tho i don't) so i'm automaticaly in the wrong yes....?

Raymond

As it has already been said, if you have a recognised medical condition, which has come about through no fault of your own and it prevents you from working and supporting yourself then of course you should be entitled to assistance from the state.

I have no knowledge of the condition of which you speak and I am not a medical professional so therefore I cannot comment on it however I would imagine (as with so many health conditions) it is very probably aggravated and possibly even worsened by use of alcohol and cannabis - both of which you have frequently admitted to using.

Nobody can help having illnesses or health conditions they are born with but you can help yourself by not making them any worse.

Bravo

Raymond

Bravo

Whether they have wanted it or not, for many centuries, the British discipline system has turned up trumps for anybody set before it. Many have tried to buck the system, all have failed.

Get em in there, that'll sort em right out. Guaranteed.

Raymond

Bravo for Prime Minister!!!

Bravo

While we're at it let's clear some space in the prisons too.

A few penal regiments is in order, yes it is

david hobbs

Oh dear.

The Raymond and Bravo alliance.

No chance for the likes of me then.

Bravo

It's ok. you can be foreign sectretary.

Waffle King

"And today on BBC news, Prime Minister Bravo talks to us about his policy on Penel Regiments" while the current Deputy Prime Minister Raymond talks to us about the "Difficulties dealing with scrouts and lay abouts!"

I can see it now, what a country it would be to live in!

Bravo

Especially for you waffle, I would introduce a new tax on broccoli, making sure nobody could afford to buy it

david hobbs

Raymond

I think I'd do a much better job than the eejits we've currently got running things.

A quick and easy way to ease the prison crisis also is to chuck back to their own countries all the foreign criminals we have banged up.

So their own governments would chop their hands off, awww shame.

Waffle King

Sia

Part of the reason, is schools are now too big, my eldests high school has over 3000 kids at it and its huge, i was knackered walking round it for an hour
Secondly I totally agree with the change in maths it does make it harder for them

Thirdly school does not serve the needs for the individual, you've got to fit it to that "box"

As for reading, ive read to all my kids from day one and my eldest (at the moment just hates reading) it is and individual thing

And it hard and tiring for kids at school, the learning the stress of social interaction from other wee buggers, and their kids, of course it wouldn't be tiring to us, were adults, there not

As for being thicker, I really don't know, For goodness sake kids forget to shut the ruddy door even though you've told them a million times

Summer holidays is a rest for them, there kids and I don't think they should start school till their 7 anyway, same as Sweden, who do great starting at that age

Last point, if I won the lotto , I would take my kids straight out of school, one to one tutors (esp for maths, as is crap at it lol) and learning from traveling and seeing the world would teach them so much more

Raymond

Sia

I didn't say for a second that they wouldn't do their exams, don't need to be in a school to do the exams, did say they would get tutors,
My eldest wants to go to uni, and become a architect, next one down wants to run his own building business, next one wants to work in Zoos around the world, and next one wants to be spiderman when he grows up

david hobbs

I wonder why we use the word thick.

The word is ignorant.

Ignorance is lack of education.

It matters not what a kids IQ is but their basic education matters a lot.

Manners social skills and respect for their fellows have nothing to do with

IQ, just lack of education, and you and I are thier role models.

Raymond

I think it comes from the phrase 'thick as two short planks' - I've no idea what the connection is between that and being stupid however.

Raymond

Besides, I personally wouldn't use the term 'thick' for somebody who was lacking in a formal education, to me 'thick' applies more to somebody who lacks common sense, who takes 5 minutes longer than everybody else to 'cotton on'.
That's a thicko to me.

david hobbs

In that case I don't have a problem with people who are thick be they young or old.

I do have a problem with ignorance however.

I think that a lot of the kids that you call thick are in fact simply ignorant.

You cannot increase the intelligence level of someone but you can educate them.

Nothing to do with formal education either.

What ever happened to please and thank you?

Raymond

Ah, well now you're strolling into the realms of good manners.

Manners aren't an instinct but they should become instinct-like. A child should constantly have it drummed into them to say please and thankyou from the very first moment they can understand the language.

You also have to bear in mind that the "yoof" of today see good manners as un-cool, and yes they really are 'thick' in the sense they genuinely cannot understand that a few 'please' and 'thankyous' will help them get on in llife.

They'd sooner walk around with their jeans round their knees and behave like ignorant swine.