Doctors have recently announced that within the next 5 years they will be able to screen for Autism in the very early stages of pregnancy in the same way they can screen for Down's Syndrome.
Would-be-parents will then have the offer of a termination.
My question is, is it right to terminate a life of a person just because they are Autistic?
evergreen
I Don't know really Raymond ..... its up to the parents i.. parenting is a tough life long job all the time these things can make it harder but it doesn't 'make the child any less valuable
david hobbs
Raymond you read my mind.
I was thinking of putting a thread on this subject only this afternoon.
Firstly is there anyone here with Autism in the family or close to them and what does it involve?
I have obviously met Autistic children, and their parents and the severity can vary enourmously.
Samjaza
My girlfriends son is severley and mentally disabled. She would be lost without him and would never have aborted. Her friend has two austistic sons. One is severe, spends all day shouting and running and hiding his poo. Likewise she'd never have aborted.
Designer babies eh? how sad, sometimes fate gives us a challenge. Love conquers all eh?
swanlady
As most of you know, my son Thomas has Autism.
If i was given the option of aborting before i gave birth to him.
I would not have taken that option.
Tom has taught me so much about life.
He has so much love to give and asks for nothing in return except to be loved.
So no i would,nt have chosen abortion.
Raymond
I say this with respect Swanny because your boy is what? 12? 13? and by now you've grown accustomed to him and his ways and he's part of your family now and of course you wouldn't want him any other way.
But all those years ago when you were pregnant with him, if the doctor's had told you he was autistic, are you sure you wouldn't have even considered it?
swanlady
Raymond wrote:
I say this with respect Swanny because your boy is what? 12? 13? and by now you've grown accustomed to him and his ways and he's part of your family now and of course you wouldn't want him any other way.
But all those years ago when you were pregnant with him, if the doctor's had told you he was autistic, are you sure you wouldn't have even considered it?
When i was pregnant for the twins and my age being 36 at the time, the hospital said i was at a higher risk of having down syndrone children, but they could,nt do an amniotic test as i was carrying twins. They would be able to tell me if one of them had downs but would,nt be able to tell me which one.
But they offered me the test anyway.
My answer to them was.......
"Even if you could tell me which one if any had downs, i would,nt have the test anyway.
My children would be loved, be it with a disability or not".
The only way i would ever have had an abortion, was if they could prove 1000% that the twins were going to be born with no arms and legs/ blind deaf and dum.
That is the only time i would not inflict such pain on a child.
I,m not against abortion when it is right for the person.
some people just could not cope with a child with disabilities, which does,nt make them any less of a mother than me.
There were two people in hospital the same time as me when i fell down the stairs at sixteen weeks pregnant for the twins.
The one woman i did,nt have the time of day for. she was in to have her seventh abortion. apparently it did,nt fit in with her life style and did,nt believe in contraception.
The other, a sixteen year old young girl was beside herself in floods of tears. she had been raped and found herself pregnant.
I spent my time convincing her that she was doing what she felt was right for her.
For everyone, its up to them to do what they feel is right for them.
I can only do what i feel is right for me.
evergreen
Love often doesn't conquer all unfortunately to me it wouldn't' effect if I had the child but then I am not everyone and surely it is the choice of the individual unless you all want to bring up their children for them cause you think they should have them in the first place
I think if you believe in abortion then it doesn't feel fair to pick and choose who it is right for.. stupidity age gender number belief disease disability they are all reasons with their own perspective depending on where you stand
As far as terminating due to a child being autistic I suppose it is no different to any other form of termination it all has to do with how the parents feel about the pregnancy and the choice they make
As far as autism goes the degree and type of autism is so varied I think it going to be perhaps too varied for doctors to tell for sure.... so for know I don't agree with the test as I can't see how they could tell what form the autism will take
it will be interesting to see how this evolves
Raymond
No they won't be able to tell what form the autism will take. Apparently they have worked out that autism is caused by too much testosterone in the womb, so I would imagine the test will be geared around that.
Swanny, I fully appreciate what you're saying but I have to ask this. Obviuosly you are happy with your son being the way he is and of course you love him no matter what.
But what if they suddenly discovered a cure for autism? Would you go for it?
swanlady
Quote:
Swanny, I fully appreciate what you're saying but I have to ask this. Obviuosly you are happy with your son being the way he is and of course you love him no matter what.
My one dream is that they will find a cure for Autism.
I would give everything i own for a cure for my Tommy as we call him.
The only thing that ever upsets me with Tom is........
Since he was a baby, Tom has talked in his sleep.
Every once in the blue moon, he will talk in his sleep, and he talks like any other child without Autism.
It gives me a glimpse to how Tom would be without this disability and that is the only time you will see me cry.
To not have Tommy scared of his own shadow?
To b able to understand everything being said like any other child?
To not have him in pain with his joints?
To have him a happy, bubbly boy that is at the age where they try to chat back to their parents?
For him to be able to go across the road to the park on his own like children his age do?
Just show me where the cure is and i,ll have my Tom at the front of the queue, because there would be a mighty long queue.
Raymond
I think some wonderful things are going to come out of medical science in the near future and hopefully, one day, Tommy will be able to do all the things he's meant to.
swanlady
Raymond wrote:
I think some wonderful things are going to come out of medical science in the near future and hopefully, one day, Tommy will be able to do all the things he's meant to.
I live for that day Raymond
Waffle King
They reckon they can test for that mashizzle now? not bad, thats quite handy, unfortuanly for me mind, thats bad news for my Horde, cos in my family (the old snobs we are) any kind of instability and thats it, you're out, kaput, kabling, alons-y forever, but still, rather nifty, the things they can do with modern medicine. I mean, just the other day, i was told if i looked after myself, as did my generation, we'd live to 130 due to modern medicine
Raymond
Waffle King wrote:
They reckon they can test for that mashizzle now? not bad, thats quite handy, unfortuanly for me mind, thats bad news for my Horde, cos in my family (the old snobs we are) any kind of instability and thats it, you're out, kaput, kabling, alons-y forever, but still, rather nifty, the things they can do with modern medicine. I mean, just the other day, i was told if i looked after myself, as did my generation, we'd live to 130 due to modern medicine
WTF???
Lilly
david hobbs wrote:
Raymond you read my mind.
I was thinking of putting a thread on this subject only this afternoon.
Firstly is there anyone here with Autism in the family or close to them and what does it involve?
I have obviously met Autistic children, and their parents and the severity can vary enourmously.
I was married to a man who was very hard to get on with,I always thought he was either schizophrenic,or a complete nutter. He had an autistic brother. Years later,I realised that he [ my hubby]had autistic tendencies,and it cleared up all the odd behaviour he displayed.
Amongst these behavioural patterns were;[ not in order] unsociability,fantastic memory for one subject only. mood swings,tantrums, severe O.D.S. [He used to drive me nuts when he would rearrange plants after the wind had been moving them! There are too many traits to mention here,but after having a chat to my doctor,I am convinced he was autistic.There are so many variations of autism.
david hobbs
I was moved by Swannies description of Tommy speaking normaly in his sleep. As a father and grandfather myself I can almost feel how it must feel.
To know that somewhere in his head is an off button for this illness, but as yet it is undiscovered must be awful.
We can only hope.
Is there a picture on here of Little Tommy?
GenieDi
Lilly I can have similar traits in my son the psychologist said it was Aspergers, then after further testing high IQ with some traits of Aspergers, but although you dont want labels on your children, I feel it is Aspergers, it answered all the questions and my son was relieved as he thought he was insane.
swanlady
This is Tommy at christmas and another photo of him with my oldest son Trystan.
Click to see full size image
Raymond
GenieDi wrote:
but although you dont want labels on your children, I feel it is Aspergers,
That's the point I was trying to hit.
Even though all these things are difficult to live with I sometimes wonder how many things are labelled away nicely and never confronted.
It wasn't so long ago that things like Aspergers, O.C.D, Autism, A.D.D and the liek were unknown, and people with them were just considered a little backward or slow.
I see so much laziness and poor education put down to dyselxia it makes me want to scream. I had a woman phone me up at work the other day because she was issued a penalty fare for not having a ticket, when I asked her why she didn't have one she simply replied "Because I'm dyselxic" - like that was a satisfactory answer.
I know another kid who is nothing but a little f*cker. He sets light to cars, straps fireworks to people's front doors - even set his own bedroom on fire.
His mother blames the MMR jab.
NO! He's just an outdacious little prick who needs a good laraping and better parenting.
I really do think to many of these conditions are used by bleeding hearts as an excuse for bad behaviour and bad parenting.
GenieDi
I agree with what you say Raymond, it happens to often, people doing terrible things and the reason, oh they had a bad homelife etc.
My son is scared of his own shadow at times and in his eyes he must not ever break the rules (school etc) he sees things black and white, right and wrong, good and bad, there is no grey areas with him.
Unfortunately it often means he cant see the funny side of something.
david hobbs
Once we had Astrology to define what and why we are.
