david hobbs
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SurveillanceIt is official.
We are the most spied upon race on the planet.
There are more cameras per head than anywhere else in the world.
Thing is that as far as I am aware we are a peaceful and non
revolutionary minded people, so why the need for all of the surveillance.
I wonder if it is because we are also the only race on the planet that will allow this kind of goldfish bowl society that has been and is still in the process of being created.
I see some good uses for cameras but I also see many that seen unnecessary
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Raymond
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I do think CCTV has become a bit to 'relied upon' in recent years but the main reason we have so much is because we have thousands of terrorists running around and the spineless authorities won't do anything about it because it might infringe on their human rights.
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Bravo
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It's because we are the nosiest and most curious nation on Earth. Just technology is here now is all
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meiah
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[quote="Bravo"]It's because we are the nosiest and most curious nation on Earth. ]
That makes me so happy 
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Raymond
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All this bellyaching about CCTV, DNA Database, ID cards, etc., I really don't have a problem with any of it, because the one argument that cuts through the whole lot is 'If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about'.
I don't want terrorists blowing up our trains. I don't want drug dealers selling drugs to 12 year olds, I don't want pissed up yobs brawling on the street, I don't want gangs of hooded ferral kids roaming around getting up to no good, and if any of these measures go in some way to combat all that then bring them on I say.
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Antnicuk
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| Quote: | | All this bellyaching about CCTV, DNA Database, ID cards, etc., I really don't have a problem with any of it, because the one argument that cuts through the whole lot is 'If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about'. |
Say for example someone wanted to frame you for a crime and gave your name to the police. This indisipicable individual had previously taken a cigarette butt you had been smoking which has your DNA on it and had dumped it at the scene of the crime.
The police find the cigarrette butt with your DNA on it and because the government insists they have details of everyone's DNA on their system they now have evidence of you having been at the scene, even though you've never been there in your life.
You have no alibi to prove you were elsewhere at the time of the crime.
You're arrested and charged because your DNA was found where it shouldn't have been and the police have a witness saying you did the crime and have the DNA evidence to back it up.
What happens then?
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Raymond
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Are you 12?
I'm sure the police, with all their faults, would seek more evidence of a crime than the spit on a fag butt.
For somebody to go to all the trouble of planting this 'evidence' at the scene of a crime they would probably do more harm to their own cause because they would have to have prior knowledge this crime was going to take place so therefore possibly have some involvment in the crime themselves.
Also, if somebody really hated you that much to want to frame you in this way there must be some well documented animosity between the two of you.
Regardless of popular opinion the police aren't stupid. They know full well any judge in the land would require a lot more evidence than the flimsy proof you describe.
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Antnicuk
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Raymond, this scenario wasn't meant to be a Divinci Code inspired, fault proof plot, you numpty.
It was meant to show in a simple idealistic manner that DNA could be used against people.
Give the powers that be full control over everything and someone will always end up getting screwed.
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david hobbs
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Get real Raymond.
People have been are being and will always be framed not just by the police but also by criminals, and go away for things they are innocent of.
DNA is seen as incontrovertable evidence and even with the best defending lawyers juries will see it as such.
Tell me can you think of any easier evidence to plant than DNA. Perhaps a signed photograph might just beat it,
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Raymond
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I'm sure all this appeals to your conspiracy gene Hobbs but having a DNA database would actually make the police work harder to convict criminals.
As I said, any Judge would need more evidence than ordinary everyday contact DNA.
And as I also said, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.
So what are you both worried about?
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Raymond
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| Antnicuk wrote: | | It was meant to show in a simple idealistic manner that DNA could be used against people. |
Yeah it was simple alright.
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david hobbs
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| Raymond wrote: | I'm sure all this appeals to your conspiracy gene Hobbs but having a DNA database would actually make the police work harder to convict criminals.
As I said, any Judge would need more evidence than ordinary everyday contact DNA.
And as I also said, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.
So what are you both worried about? |
So is a finger print better evidence than DNA then?
I am only a part time conspiracy theorist anyway.
Sure there is a lot of nonsense talked on some sites but I don't believe for one moment that it is all nonsense.
I don't trust mainstream politicians or conspiracy theorists I just like to see what they are arguing and make up my own mind.
I base my views on the people and situations that I have encountered in my own lifetime, police , criminal and the media. I have seen what they are capable of and I do not think for one moment that people have changed one bit. On several occasions I have seen police corruption first hand ranging from bribary to meeting with criminals to share out the proceeds of crime. So don't tell me that the establishment is all hunky dory. Perhaps I have said enough here but I don't want you to think that I look at websites and say Ohh arr missus.
I didn't mention the two separate occasions that I met unconnected people who claimed to have been in secret underground establishments having been taken there against their will. Yes they could both be barmy but it is a coincidence that they told similar stories.
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | | On several occasions I have seen police corruption first hand ranging from bribary to meeting with criminals to share out the proceeds of crime. |
I completely agree as I've also seen it first hand, the point I'm trying to make is once upon a time this country was a nice place to live.
People didn't live in constant fear of being robbed or burgled or having their car nicked.
Large groups of scabby 'yoofs' didn't roam the streets stabbing each other.
Crime and criminals have changed. The days of the likes of the Kray twins are over.
There is no more 'honour among thieves', there's no more "they only kill their own kind".
Nowadays the little scroats would slit your throat for a fiver whilst filming you on their mobile phone.
Couple that with the fact that this circus of a government have completely lost control of immigration and now we have an array of foreign criminals running around doing whatever the hell they please and of course not forgetting the terrorist threat that we constantly live under.
Times have changed.
And unfortunately they have changed very much for the worst.
So the way the authorities deal with this has to change as well.
And if that means DNA databases, ID cards and CCTV's everywhere to help keep us all that little bit safer then I welcome it.
Of course I want to live in a free society, of course I don't want to be monitired and kept on file but through a combination of bad government and far too much liberalism we have sleepwalked ourselves into a very dangerous society, and if it comes down to a choice between freedom and safety, I choose safety.
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david hobbs
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Quote.....and if it comes down to a choice between freedom and safety, I choose safety.unquote....
Raymond.
I think that possibly you were a little tired when you wrote this. Think it through.
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david hobbs
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Things in this country are no better and no worse than they ever were.
It is just a matter of crime and bad behaviour taking a different form.
And of course the media making people a little over excited about things.
I do not think for one moment that the past was better than the present.
Take a look for instance at the Victorians. Ever heard of baby farms. it's
were the expression farming it out comes from.
Kids killing each other is an abomination that must be stamped out.
but we must not get sucked into the idea that this is happening because by some stroke of bad luck we happen to live in the most awful of times that has ever been.
That is a complete nonsense.
My uncle ran the pub in Finsbury Park were the Kray gang drank. I would
rather take my chances against a kid with a knife than the twins and their pals.
You seem to suggest by the words"the days of the Kray twins are over" that organised crime has given way to yobs on bikes shooting people.
Organised crime is bigger and better organised than ever. It just doesn't get itself in the papers very often.
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | | I think that possibly you were a little tired when you wrote this. Think it through. |
I wasn't tired and I think through all my posts very carefully before submitting each one.
The government, the police and the authorities are there to keep the public in order.
It's a pity we have chosen such a sorry bunch to do that job but hey, you make your bed you have to lie in it.
Unfortunatley the way in which we are governed and policed has to change.
If people want to run around stabbing each other and doing horrible things to each other then the authorities have to respond likewise.
Sometimes you can only fight fire with fire.
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | Kids killing each other is an abomination that must be stamped out.
but we must not get sucked into the idea that this is happening because by some stroke of bad luck we happen to live in the most awful of times that has ever been. |
I would call electing a weak and pointless government an extreme stroke of bad luck.
And thanks to a constant diet of political correctness and wishy-washy liberalism we have found ourselves in exactly the worst society there has ever been.
Has it failed to grab your attention that the vast majority of these kids who stab and are stabbed are black?
Why is that I wonder.
Because nobody in authority will do what needs to be done to stop this madness because they're more afraid of being called a racist.
Until we can remove that ridiculious word from our lives they will just go on killing each other.
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david hobbs
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Nothing will convince you that this is not the worst society that there has ever been so I will not attempt to do so.
It is not a bad stroke of luck that we have these dummies running this country. it is due to us not taking enough interest in politics.
Laziness rules the waves.
Why in your opinion is it mostly black kids who are killing each other?
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | | Why in your opinion is it mostly black kids who are killing each other? |
Many reasons, so I will attempt to give a few.
Firstly there is a problem with all young people regardless of colour. They have no respect - not even for themselves and the root cause of that is because they have little or no disciplne in their lives.
Adults have forgotton how to treat children like children. That all started going wrong when liberalism told us that we should treat young people like equals.
A lot of the reason black youths seem to be so lawless is partly due to the terribly violent music and culture they admire so much that comes out of America.
This music gloryfies violence, rape, murder, guns and money.
Another reason black kids have gone off the rails is because they believe all the liberalist crap that they are treated unfairly in society.
They don't think they have as much of a chance to get on in life as their white counterparts.
They also seem to have massive chips on thier shoulders. To them, everyone is racist and the only reason they can't do well is all down to society and not because of their own short-comings.
Anyway, the reasons WHY this is happening is all academic. The important thing now is how do we stop it.
The only way I can see is to have targeted and more vigourous policing. The fact that nobody likes to mention is that most violent crime today is by young black or asian men, and the only way to police will really get on top of it is by deliberately targeting young black and asian men with a zero tolerence policy.
But of course that won't happen because the bleeding hearts will call it racist.
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david hobbs
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It could also be regional.
Around here there are not to many black people and the violence vandalism etc is in the main done by white kids.
As we are not beating around the bush here I can say that I remember a boss some years ago turning a black woman down for a job and stating that he didn't want blacks on the firm.
I was disgusted by his attitude quite frankly and it showed me first hand that work is easier to find if you are white.
having said that I have also come across black kids who where racist so perhaps it is a double sided coin.
I think the politicians just hope that the problem will go away and of course it won't.
The thing that should happen is that police should crack down on these people whatever colour they are.
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Raymond
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Yes of course it's a regional thing.
Where I live it's something like 70% asian, so logically most of the crime round here will be carried out by asian people.
I have quite a few friends in the police force and many of them will happily tell you they don't relish the thought of working in areas where there is more black or asian people simply because there is more crime in those areas than in areas that are predominantly white.
The government statistics show that in London, street crime is more likely to be commited by either a young black male or a young asian male than any other group of society.
Bleeding hearts will say we need to look at why that's the case, people with common sense (like me) will say if we know that to be fact then we need to crack down harder on young black and asian males.
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