See if you can see anything odd

david hobbs · See if you can see anything odd

This stained glass window is a little unusual. Test you knowledge and see if you can spot any anomilies.

click me

You will need to make the picture as large as you can or you will not see what is there.

Good site this. I took the picci instead of using someone elses'

david hobbs

You may not be able to see it but St Francis has nail marks on his hands. He was never crucified. How can that be?

laura

maybe in his solitude, his penance wasn't only to wear the hair shirt but also to mark himself with the "marks of christ"???

david hobbs

david hobbs

I found out that St Francis is often depicted with stigmata. Perhaps he experienced the phenomena himself.

evergreen

I think I have heard that before

I find utterly that facinating

meiah

david hobbs

Excellent information. Thanks Meiah

beantighe

That's good, I thought stigmata before I'd read any of the other replies.

Where is that window, David? And who is the other saint? He's dressed in (I'd say) 15th C clothes, and his dog looks like a labrador. Is it a fairly modern window?

beantighe

On closer inspection it's St Hubert, and he's wearing early Tudor dress. He's a huntsman, because he also has a hunting horn. And why are the signs of the zodiac all around the edge? This doesn't look like a church window, even with the images of two saints on it. This is intriguing. David, can you enlighten me any more?

Raymond

Actually, I just noticed the zodiac signs around the edge. Not very 'christian' at all.

david hobbs

Oh so you are beginning to cotton on then.

I will put more on when I find the time.

And there is lot's more.

I love a mystery especially when you have found it out for your self. Well with one friend.

Hunter

Is it in a masonic hall David ?

beantighe

Just found this on Wikipaedia:

Saint Hubertus or Hubert (born c. 656 to 658, probably in Toulouse; died May 30, 727 or 728 in Tervuren near Brussels, Belgium), called the "Apostle of the Ardennes" was the first Bishop of Liège. Hubertus is a Christian saint, the patron saint of hunters, mathematicians, opticians and metalworkers, and used to be invoked to cure rabies. Saint Hubert was widely venerated in the Middle Ages.

david hobbs

beantighe

Is it anything to do with patronage? Something to do with whoever had the window commissioned, or because Hubert is patron of something associated with the area? Or is there even a connection with St Francis?

david hobbs

Here are some more windows from the same church. Bearing in mind that this is the parish church, where I wonder, does the theme of these windows fit in with Christianity!

Do you see anything odd?

meiah

So the King Arthur story is a christian tale, is it?

david hobbs

I have no idea, but it is certainly not biblical.

People do things for a reason especially when you consider the cost of these windows.

What I wonder was the reason for these images?

Lilly

david hobbs

Yes I would call that a tentative link rather than a positive connection.

The expression good and upright man seems familiar. I believe it may be a Freemasonry expression.

Look back at the pictures and note the shape of the stone from which Excalibur is being extracted. It is a truncated pyramid.

I am beginning to think that this church has Freemasonry connections and I don't mean the guys who built it.

I shall investigate more.

By the way the church is St Mary's at Prittlewell in Essex.

Also note the reversed lance in another of the pictures and the similarity between the Devil card in the Ryder Waite pack and yet another of the windows.

So what with Astronomical signs out of sequence and strange windows, what is it all about. I have some more interesting picture to put on later.

Hunter

There's a link with Arthurian legend & the Grail hunt, which is why I wondered if there was a link with the masons, or even the Priory of Zion ?

david hobbs

Hunter

Have a read of this : http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/poseur3.html

The Masons and the templars are very strongly linked, and there are legends of a Grail quest around the Templars, if you follow the ideas of the book "The Holy blood & the Holy Grail" by Baigent & Leigh, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Blood,_Holy_Grail then the Templars & the masons have been hiding the truth of the holy grail, which according to certain historians is the bloodline of Christ, since before the founding of the templars in the C12th !
Masons are according to legend followers of the templar movement !
(You've hit upon something that I know a fair deal about here & something which fascinates me !)

david hobbs

I shall be looking at the sites you recommend later when my head is on the right way for such things. I do believe that we have our own connections with this mystery here in darkest Essex. Following on from my own work together with a local expert he has found some amazing things in the landscape and I was with him in fact discovered some myself. I had no understanding of what the overall picture was but it is all to do with the Great Bear(Arthur) constellation and golden means and landscape geometry which is all beyond me. Sadly he is married to the witch that I fell out with and try as I might he will not publish or release any of his work. If someone reads this who can research such things then so be it. In the meantime I shall press on and put whatever I find on here. That is what his site is all about. Openness and sharing. At least I hope it is.
I have red Holy Blood three times and it it really fascinating stuff. Having spent a lot of time out in the landscape I am certain that there are secrets yet to be uncovered for those who wish to involve themselves in such things.

PS.

Note the similarity between this truncated pyramid and the one in the photo in my previous post out of wich Excalibur is being extracted.

Lilly

[By the way the church is St Mary's at Prittlewell in Essex]
OOOOO! I wish I'd known about this years ago,
My aunt Win got married in this church in 1961. I went to the wedding but didn't even look at the windows,unusual for me! I have always been interested in the Arthurian legend and the Knights Templars and have long thought there was a connection between the two.
My family were Huguenots,and my married name comes directly from the Knights Templars.
first recorded use of the name, a Knight Templar called Hugh de Baldoca (”Hugh of Baldock”) in 1185.

Tell us more David,if you can.

Hunter

That's the masonic pyramid found in particular on the american dollar bill (Benjamin Franklin was a Mason!!)

Lilly

Took the words out of my mouth!
I can see a similarity in David.s pic. and the one referred to here.

Perhaps the Americans had a hand in the making of the windows?
____________________________

First Committee's Reverse Side of the Great Seal [pic. in next post!]

In the story of America's Great Seal, a particularly relevant chapter is the imagery suggested by Benjamin Franklin in August 1776. He chose the dramatic scene described in Exodus, where people confronted a tyrant in order to gain their freedom.

"Pharaoh sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his head and a Sword in his hand, passing through the divided Waters of the Red Sea in Pursuit of the Israelites: Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Cloud, expressive of the divine Presence and Command, beaming on Moses who stands on the shore and extending his hand over the Sea causes it to overwhelm Pharaoh."

"Motto: Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God."

©2009 GreatSeal.com
[url=http://gallery.myff.org/gallery/476990/1CommLossingRevLG.jpg]

Lilly

reverse of the great seal.

Lilly

I have spotted something else!!!!!!!!!1 The fellow on the right hand side on the ground is holding a staff? and at the top is the star/crescent moon symbol..
The star and crescent originally was a symbol used by the Zhou Dynasty, Greeks, Mongol-Turkic (Mongol Empire) and Persians among others. It was used for the city of Byzantium in pre-Christian times and then more widely in the Hellenistic world.
Now used by Islam..

The plot thickens

Surely there is some reference to the windows in the church record books?

beantighe

Could it be something to do with the Crusades? A propaganda image of Christianity crushing Islam? Of course, a lot depends on how old these windows are.

Hunter

I'm certain it's masonic, the longer I look at the windows.
Beantighe They can't be to do with the crusades, because they look like C19th copies of renaissance windows !

david hobbs

This one is interesting because we are already talking about French connections and I was told that this widow was originaly in a church in France. It is I believe the oldest window at St Marys and I have no idea what any of the scenes depict. Fancy going to the trouble of shipping the window all that way.

Well I think the Templar and the Freemason connections are not in doubt having found this picture in my collection. from St Marys. Hunter is this splayed white cross the Knights Hospitilars decendents of the Knights Templar.

There are astrological signs in more than one window I seem to remember. I must go back and get more information.

If you have not already done it copy these pictures into my pictures and blow them up and you will see what I mean.

Hunter

That's definitely a Templar cross David, but why inversed white on red ?

beantighe

I'm lost on the techy side, I'm afraid, David. I don't know how to do that.

mark

or use the roller on the mouse and push on ctrl on keypad its on the bottom left of keyboard

david hobbs

david hobbs

david hobbs

Has anyone spotted the fact that the slayer of the dragon in one of the windows has his lance reversed. Must be a reason for that.

Any ideas?

Hunter

I feel like I'm taking part in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeIEovjOVdI

Lilly

david hobbs

Bottom left is the Mayor of Southends lodge in Southend on Sea. I am going to a wedding reception there later in the year. What a great opportunity to look for clues and I shall be taking my camera.

Bottom right is a view of St Marys church in days gone by. The same St Marys that the windows are in.

I wish I could get some good shots of the Astrological signs in some of the windows because I do know that for some reason one of then is out of sequence.

I shall see what can be done and another snag is that I know nothing of Astrology.

To move the story on a little.

My friend and I used to look for Ley Lines and he was charting one and said that there should be a stone in a certain spot in Hockley Essex. We went to the exact spot which was outside an old cottage called Holly Cottage.

I looked over the tall hedge and saw a huge standing stone which I pointed out to Terry. It's in the wrong place he said, he was a perfectionist and the ley was a long one. Just then the owner of the cottage came put to ask what we were doing. We told him the story and he told us that we were correct in our calculations. The stone was exactly in the spot that we had charted and he moved it because it kept hitting the exhaust on his motor car. He had even given the stone a name. The Venus Stone.

Even more intriguing is the fact that Terry had worked out that a series of land sites over a large area in the landscape formed what appeared to be the same layout as the star constelation, The great bear. The venus stone is dead centre of the landscape constelation Bear is srongly connected to the name Arthur. In fact someone told me that Arthur meant bear.
Good Eh.

I am really spilling the beans here but my ex friend is such a lazy sod that this story will never come out.

There is lots more to it but my math is rubbish. Its all to do with the speed of light.

Yes sounds barmy but I have seen the evidence.

Happy Easter by the way.

mark

could we attach a video camera to a pole david,to get the height to see these astrology signs

david hobbs

david hobbs

OH MY GOOD GOD !!!!!!!!!!

Remenber me putting pictures of a gold ring on a while back and I was trying to locate the meaning of the symbols on it.

I JUST FOUND SOME OF THEM.

I printed off a picture of the constellation Ursa Major that I found on a website. I just noticed some really small symbols by some of the stars making up the constelatiom and looked at them through a jewellers eye glass.

They are the same symbols as on the ring.

HELP!!!!!!

Lilly

david hobbs

I think the signs are astronomical rather than astrological.

Here is the link to the thread with all of the pictures of the ring.

http://ghe.myfreeforum.org/about2068.html

mark

hi have a look here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_symbols

david hobbs

No Mate it's Astrolonomical not Astrological. There is a huge difference. I spent months searching Astrology amd freemasonary and every bloody ology you can think of.

I think that you me and Anne need to get out into the landscape very soon.

Nothing like a good quest I say.

Let's go for it.

Lilly

There is a thirteenth zodiac sign! zodiac signs are actually zodiacal constellations which the sun passes through them during the course of the year. Even though the sun passed though Ophiuchus, it is not counted as a proper zodiac sign. Some theories were that the number 13 was considered as unlucky in the western world, thus it was not added in. Other official explanation was that Ophiuchus was not in the natural southerly path of the 12 major constellations thus it is awkward to promote it as part of natural universal precession.

When the Queen bestows the Order of the Garter on a commoner she wears a cloak with 169 (13 x 13) identical decorated silk garters on it, representing the ancient fact, to those who know, that the monarch is the titular head of the major thirteen covens of Logres, the head of the ancient faith, as well as the titular head of the Church of England. Logres is the name given to the spiritual Britain. You can feel Logres in Glastonbury and other sacred places in Britain. Thirteen is very important to the feminine side of occult work.
How does thirteen apply to the Zodiac of the magazines? Well, the Zodiac is defined in astronomy as the belt of starry constellations through which the Sun, Moon and planets seem to move. It is the starry background of their journeys. But the smallest number of constellations that are defined under that very ancient scheme is not 12. It is actually 13.
Ophiuchus the Serpent Bearer is and always has been the 13th constellation on the zodiac belt, but apparently nobody has ever initiated his sign as a member of the Zodiac, possibly because then there wouldn't have been a convenient one constellation for each of the twelve months of the solar calendar year.

The signs on that ring are Western zodiac signs
from l-r. Pisces Aries,Taurus

Lilly

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'' I do know that for some reason one of then is out of sequence. ''

Could it be the thirteenth sign?

david hobbs

Look again

Lilly

david hobbs

Take a look here Lilly

http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/...ns/constellations/Ursa_Minor.html

And here

http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/...ns/constellations/Ursa_Major.html

I have no idea what these symbols refer too. I recognise some of them from the ring.

Lilly

Lilly

These are the names of the stars in the constellation of Ursae Major

DUBHE (Alpha UMa)
MERAK (Beta UMa)
PHAD (Gamma UMa)
MEGREZ (Delta UMa)
ALIOTH (Epsilon UMa)
MIZAR (Zeta UMa)
ALKAID (Eta UMa)
Talitha (Iota UMa)
Tania Borealis (Lambda UMa)
Tania Australis (Mu UMa)
Alula Borealis (Nu UMa)
Alula Australis (Xi UMa)
Muscida (Omicron UMa)
Muscida (Pi 1 UMa)
Muscida (Pi 2 UMa)
ALCOR (80 UMa)
There is one sign on the ring that I do not recognise,it looks like a butterfly.
If the ring is very old,its possible that the signs were drawn differently to how we draw them today. Only a few years back,the letter 'S' in our alphabet looked like an 'f'
My theory is; this ring came from Atlantis!!!!

BTW; what picture of the windows has the zodiac signs?

david hobbs

I have been asleep I think because I missed these really useful posts.

Cheers Lilly.

Can't digest this at the moment because my attention is being demanded by a hungry cat and a noisy granddaughter

Lilly

david hobbs

I did realise that some of the symbols were Greek and I have looked at so many sites on symbols and alphabets that I have gone cross eyed.

It seems to me to be a combination of Greek, and unknown symbols.

In truth I am no closer to finding a solution. I need a professor to take a look.

Any way back to the Zodiac sign in the landscape of South east Essex.

I have scoured maps and cannot find it again although I know it is there.
I shall keep looking.

Lilly the Zodiac signs are predominantly in this picture, but other windows have them in too.

beantighe

I just thought I'd throw in that there's a Zodiac in the landscape around Glastonbury, too. I know the Michael Line goes through Glastonbury and carries on at an angle that would surely take it through Essex -my geography's not that good without a map to hand. Would there be any connection, do you think?

Lilly

I wish I could see this clearer,magnifying it distorts.
Funny I found this link another St. Michael's church,did St. Michael know something we didn't?
Have a look at this link;
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk/essex/copford2.html

and here's a pic. of the Glastonbury zodiac
.Glastonbury is one of my fave places.

beantighe

I seem to remember reading somewhere that St Michael is synonymous with the Archangel Michael (is that right?) I don't know a lot about the Archangels because it's not a great interest of mine, but I do know there is one for each of the elements, and the one for Fire is Michael. I also know that the Michael line passes through St Michael's Mount, also its twin in France, Mont St Michel, and carries on in a straight line through Glastonbury. Has anyone got a map to trace its further journey?

I'm following this thread with great interest, even though I can't contribute much. I'm just hoping that something I've said might just give someone else a clue.

Actually, I'm just waiting for someone to come up with a link to Rosslyn Chapel!

Lilly