david hobbs
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ReligionSometimes the very word religion puts peoples backs up.
I was wondering what you think consitutes a valid religion?
I don't mean a nice or nasty religion but religion in general.
When I "hear" Bravo speak of Martial arts I get the feeling of a religion. Not from him, but from me.
And why not.
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Waffle King
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Religion is nothing but a erm "guide line" for the human race, a book (in any religion) that tells you how and what to do, thats my oppinion anyway, but i'm Catholic none-the-less 
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Raymond
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Religion is something that (should) touch you where nothing else can. Most of the world's 'organised' seem to fail to do that to many of their followers and many, many more seem to confuse the word 'religion' with 'loyalty'.
Many 'do' their religious practice with little or no thought as to why they are doing what they do or what the meaning behind it is. They simply follow a set of instructions out of the belief (or fear) of keeping some great sky-god happy.
A religion can be followed by millions or just the individual. So long as it is done for the right reasons according to the follower it is perfectly valid.
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Bravo
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I am of the belief that any belief is a valid one so long as it doesn't impede the healthy pursuits of others, which is a bit of a shortened version but all I can be bothered to type atm
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Waffle King
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| Bravo wrote: | | I am of the belief that any belief is a valid one so long as it doesn't impede the healthy pursuits of others, which is a bit of a shortened version but all I can be bothered to type atm |
Athiest, Bravo?
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Raymond
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| Waffle King wrote: |
Athiest, Bravo? |
I don't think someone has to be an athiest to agree with Bravo's comments.
I'm certainly no athiest but I firmly disagree with people shoving their beliefs up other people's noses.
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Bravo
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Type a:
I believe in fairies, I don't mind what you believe in, but I believe in fairies.
Type b:
I believe in fairies, it is time you believed in fairies, in fact, if you don't believe in fairies, then you are evil and thus deserving of death.
There are both types of people within religion. Type a is fine by me, type b aint.
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Waffle King
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Type B reminds me ever so slightly of Adolf Hitler, or is it just me.....?
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david hobbs
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That's type C
I believe that I can make you believe anything because you are sheep.
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Bravo
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I didn't know Hitler believed in fairies
you learn something new every day...
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Raymond
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I thought he shot fairies, along with the Jews and the Gypsies.
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Waffle King
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He believed in the spear of christ, holy grail and other hogwash like such, so it is possiblle that he believed in the winged folks aswell
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Raymond
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Oh right,.... I was thinking of a different kind of fairy.
Anyway, fairies aren't hogwash. I most certainly do believe in them.
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Waffle King
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Was saying the S-O-D destiny was hogwash Raymond, not fairies mate
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david hobbs
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To me the most inspiring religion that I have met with it the Salvation Army.
They work on the principle that hands that help are holier than lips that pray.
When I meet these people and listen to the things that they achieve through dedication and sheer effort, I have to admire them.
Hands that help are indeed holier than lips that pray, or chant,or say spiritual things,or just seem clever!!!!!!!!
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Raymond
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Are you saying the Salvation Army is a religion in itself?
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david hobbs
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No.
They are people who practise the Christian faith and to my mind put it into practise.
I was visited by a couple who spent their lives in Africa with the Salvation Army. She was beaten half to death and had the pleasure of a machine gun barrel being smashed through her leg in Rwanda and is now slowly becoming more and more paralysed and is not long for this world.
She told me that she would not have changed a thing because it has been the most amazing spiritual journey.
Their story is a long one and I won't go into it at the moment, but let me just say that listening to what they had achieved, and the service they have given in their lives made me feel humble to say the least.
imagine being in a country where the killing squads work office hours and if you are still alive after 5.00 PM then you will at least make it till the morning when it all began over again.
1,000,000 dead in around two months. Mostly hacked to death, well their arms and legs hacked off and thrown into the latrines to die. That's what they lived through, or should I say, one of the things.
I question what value my input has been in life.
Conclusion, not a lot compared to these people.
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Raymond
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While I certainly admire SOME of the work of the sally army I just can't help thinking that a lot of them are just do-gooders.
I've spoken to a few members of the sally army in my time (believe it or believe it not I actually have a friends who works for them), and I can't help feeling the same feeling I feel with most Christians; holier than thou. It's as if they have a sign hanging around their necks: 'I'm Doing Gods' Work So I'm Better Than You!'
With all due respect to them and their work it just all feels a bit 'get a life!'
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evergreen
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yeah and I get the same feeling from people who say they are spiritual or a witch or a pagan or a christian or a JW and that somehow makes them different to others...
we are the same why can we not see that????
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david hobbs
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| evergreen wrote: | yeah and I get the same feeling from people who say they are spiritual or a witch or a pagan or a christian or a JW and that somehow makes them different to others...
we are the same why can we not see that???? |
Because people need a sense of self.
It is a part of the "why am I here syndrome"
Thinking about what we are and then finding someone who will tell us makes us belong.
That is part of the problem with the knife thugs.
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Raymond
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Methinks EG is having a bad week.
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david hobbs
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| Raymond wrote: | | Methinks EG is having a bad week. |
I agree with E.G.
People do need an identity. We all see ourselves as "something", but we have no idea what we are really. Notice the number of female "Witches"with purple in their hair. That and the way they dress sends out the message"this is what I am, and I am different to you"
It's strange, on the one hand wanting to be different, but on the other desperate to belong.
I know that when I was healing I saw myself as and acted as a healer.
The same with majik and trance mediumship.
If I were all of those things, then why do they not play a bigger role in my life now.
Nowadays I try not to take on an identity.
It works sometimes.
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evergreen
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| Raymond wrote: | | Methinks EG is having a bad week. |
yeah got stuff happening
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | Notice the number of female "Witches"with purple in their hair. That and the way they dress sends out the message"this is what I am, and I am different to you"
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Now this is something I find truly fascinating. There seems to be an ever increasing number of "Witches" going for this sort of thing.
Becoming goth, having the strangest of tatoos and wearing the most outrageous clothing and jewellery.
Does all this make one a better Witch? No of course not.
I'll try and explain what I mean.
Many years ago I was in the pub trade. I managed several pubs in London and Essex. In 1997 I was asked to manage a pub in Southend-On-Sea.
This was to become my permanent pub after years of standing in for managers.
This pub happened to be a gay pub and as a result the customers wanted drag acts to entertain them at weekends.
These acts would get up on stage in their big frocks and wigs and seemingly have all the confidence in the world.
When they finished their act and took off the frocks and wigs they were just ordinary people who you wouldn't notice twice.
It was as if the frocks and wigs gave them something that wasn't there when they were off.
I think the same thing is true of a lot of the Witchcraft community.
And I think it's quite a bad thing. Some of the most powerful Witches I have ever met look just like ordinary, everyday folk and some of the 'gothy' ones with all the black lipstick and purple hair couldn't raise enough energy to drop a decent fart.
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david hobbs
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What eloquence you have in the anatomical department Raymond.
I think the pub you are referring to is the Cliff's in Southend. I was once asked to leave because I was stroking Magi's back in the bar. The guy running the place told me that if he allowed me to do it all of the gay guys would want too, stroke each other that is. I said so what's wrong with that then, as everyone new that this pub was predominantly gay. I left.
On the question of identity.
Some people want others to believe that they are witches and different, scary even.
Like you said Raymond, they couldn't raise their hand to be excused let alone a working current of power.
My dad used to say"if you can't fight, buy a big hat"
Sum's it up really.
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Raymond
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Goodness me, so you know the Cliff.
Well, well. Do you know that's the second time is as many days I've been reminded just what a small world it is we live in.
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david hobbs
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Oh yes I do know the Cliff. A friend of mine who studies the quickening with me used the upstairs some years ago to run his martial arts school. He had free use of the facilities on the proviso that he came downstairs to the bar if any trouble looked like starting.
I never new him personaly then, but unknown to me he was working with another majicians group at the time to obtain an astral sword that my group were also after. it was a bit of an asral contest with each side knowing but not knowing whom they were physicaly against.
My group won in the end and it is a very long story that I shan't bore you with now.
Ten years later I met the man who is now a very good friend and in conversation our past opposition to each other came to light.
Good job he was into the spiritual by then because he is apparently one of the top in his martial field in the country, He never said so but his students have told me.
Yes Raymond it is a very small world and the Hobbs has big eyes and ears, all the better to be nosey with 
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Raymond
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Ahhh yes, but big eyes and big ears are only useful when the information they receive is correct.
You don't happen to know Wicca Moon or anybody associated with it do you?
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david hobbs
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I probably do know some of them one way or the other but the name means nothing to me.
Witches tend to know each other even if it is only from the odd meeting or two.
As you know I no longer attend coven meets. Well OK I was chucked out!!!
I do know James other wise known as bagpipe man and also for his body piercings.
Ring any bells.
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Raymond
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No I'm afraid not, but he certainly sounds quite a character.
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Deb's
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Awe Dave mate... I don't like to burst your bubble and although I totally agree that I also like the ethos behind the army.... I have worked for them and I had to leave... as they are strict followers of the bible... do you know they would not employ anyone that was not of the christian faith or had sexual preferences for example... for me this is prejudice and totally wrong.... I used to be a christian... but this sort of thing is totally wrong... who are they to judge????
I am not knocking the Salvation Army.... (well not much) but there are things that go on that the public simply don't know.... but again... I will still stand by their ethos, they help alot of people which is what a christian (or person) should do.
love & light,
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david hobbs
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No bubble to burst Deb's
I do live in the real world and I know that everyone in the army is not a saint.
Your right about the public not being aware of what happens behind closed doors and when I take a look behind my own I realise that the Sally Army people with all their faults are probably better folk than I.
It's called life.
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Deb's
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Hey this is not heaven, none of us are perfect and none of us are saints.
You know I never try to justify my existance, we are all fine where we are at. It's all a learning process, be you good, bad or indifferent.
love & light,
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