Magick Or Prayer?

Raymond · Magick Or Prayer?

What is Prayer? Prayer is not a power in itself. It is not so much a technique as a conversation.
To pray is to say 'No' to despair and 'Amen' to the 'Yes' of the Divine. So, it is the means to end problems and open the door to joy.

We cannot guarantee what Deity will do with our prayers. This is good though because it means prayer cannot be used make bad things happen.

"The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective". (James 5:16).

By the same token, we do not know how our requests will be addressed, if at all.

Prayer is also deeper than words.

"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered". (Romans 8:26-27).

If our agony is more than we can begin to articulate, the Divine hears that agony which has no words. This isn't an escape clause. If we can articulate our prayers, we must.

If we use Prayer as the basis of our Spiritual undertakings we must understand that it is not our will which becomes manifest - but that of the Divine. We may not get exactly what we ask for. We may get more, we may get less.

The belief that the Spirit works in our best interest implies it does not matter. If you do not ask, you do not receive. If you do not receive, it was not meant to be.

So what about Magick?

For our purposes we shall define Magick as: The belief that supernatural forces can be controlled, influenced and manipulated by executing a ritualistic formula, either physical or verbal.

The two key components of this definition are 1.) Ritual and 2.) Manipulation.

In order for Magick to be effective, it MUST manipulate energy.
This may be Divine energy, a herbal energy, a spiritual force (such as the Vodou Lwa or Lucumi Orisha), an elemental or planetary energy, etc.

It must also adhere to the Oxford English Dictionary definition of "ritual":

'A prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies'.

Magickal rituals do incorporate prayer-like incantations or spoken requests.
However, in this context the magician understands he/she can constrain, coerce, and force the divinity to do his/her will.

Many religions use sacrifices and elaborate doxologies to induce God to favour requests, grant wishes and perform miracles upon demand.
Is this magick? Yes.
Religion and magic are not mutually exclusive. While often unspoken, they frequently walk hand in hand.

I fully aware that to quote oneself is rather crass but I made a statement some years ago which I feel is rather important to this post:

"Prayer is a request. Magick is a command".

Requests can be denied. Commands cannot.

david hobbs

"Prayer is a request. Magick is a command".

Requests can be denied. Commands cannot.

And so mote it be.

Prayer is done on bended knee. This in itself is a statement of defeat before the universe.

Majik is worked with the whole being. There is no cowering to an outside entity.

I know which I prefer.

Raymond

I know which has more of an effect.

laura

thankyou for that raymond ..i had not considered it in such a manner before..

Raymond

My posts will either make you angry or make you think. If they do neither then I'm not doing my job properly.

laura

matt

Have used prayer and magic, magic seemed quite hit and miss for me some interesting moments and some not so. Prayer on the other hand I have used on only a handfull of occassions and it can be comforting but also if my last experience is anything to go by amazingly powerfull. Don't know who or what was watching out for me.

Raymond

Prayer can be a very powerful tool but from my experience it's much better for the 'inside' rather than the 'outside'.

I suppose it all depends on the objective.

evergreen

i have never considered myself someone who preys but each night before I sleep I ask for signs for things I want sorting .. I began this when a young child as it helped me get my homework sorted..

it works for me nearly every time.. is that prayer?

Raymond

Of a sort, yes. Praying doesn't have to be to some great sky-god it can be to anything - even yourself.

evergreen

well who would have known ha!

Raymond

If I'm going to have a particularly stressful day, the night before I 'pray' to myself in the form of a bit of a pep talk, "You will remain calm, and I want you to say this and do that, and you won't lose your temper..."
Honestly, it works!

evergreen

yes ,,, its like i said we are our own god... I know that sounds stupid what i mean is we can make ourselves to be or feel just about anything .. how God like is that

new age people have titled it visualisation and affirmations however it is stated its the power of your mind to connect with the best part of you the part you want to be- your higher self your god what ever

ChildOfChrist

prayer to the LORD JESUS CHRIST is the only path to salvation

sheelanagig

Please define salvation???????

Bravo

sheelanagig

Thanks Bravo, I has hoping to hear CoC's version ... LOL

evergreen

yeah but Coc version is not his own honey!

Bravo's is far more real

Waffle King

I don't belive either truely "work" it's all about power of the mind rather then a celestial being or a magik book

Raymond

Magick is all about the mind Waff. Real magick anyway. All the bits and bobs are just props.

Waffle King

Yes this maybe true, but you still need the bits and bobs to do it in the first place, most times when i've had injuries, like my ankle for example, i wasn't supposed to walk for up to 6 weeks, 2 weeks into the time i said to myself over and over in my mind "come on get up and walk" and it worked, hurt a bit but not as much as before when i used the crutch

Raymond

No you don't need the props. The best you can expect from them is to be some kind of 'mental prod' to help get you in a magickal mood.

Magick can actually be done anywhere, at any time without anything.

Waffle King

Interesting, anyway i can learn this knowledge Raymond?

Raymond

Of course you can. The catch is you have to start with all the props and do your magick to the letter, but over time you'll find your own way of doing with less and less props until eventually you give them up completly.

Waffle King

Excellent, so how do i do this then? from a book maybe?

Raymond

It is possible I suppose, there are some very good books avaliable these days but for every good book there's about a dozen really bad ones. The best way to learn is probably with a teacher or a group.

Waffle King

thanks Raymond, fortuantly i has plenty of "Free Time" as for a teacher or a group, the phrase "doesn't work well with others" really does apply in my case

Raymond

Yeah same here. I'll go through all my books and give you some titles of some really good starter books (and some really bad ones).

Waffle King

Good ones only please boss, i don't intend to waste good money on s**t books

Raymond

I don't blame you. I've got loads of them if you want them.

Waffle King

On t'other hand, i never say no to freebies Big Grin

Raymond

Wind your neck in! Who mentioned 'free'?

Waffle King

nobody, just mentioned i never say no to a freebie

Raymond

That's alright then.

Waffle King

Free information is the best information, cos it doesn't cost

beantighe

Raymond

You're right. It's difficult enough to find a decent mediumship group let alone a craft group.

As I said somewhere else, you've got to open a lot of oysters before you find a pearl.

beantighe

And oysters (like all shellfish) don't half stink to high heaven if you get a bad'un!

I was with that group for no more than 3 months, and by then every single member who was there when I was invited to join had drifted away.
I wonder where they are now - there were one or two nice people there, but that HP was a crazy control freak. He seemed to get off on it. His wife was nice, though, but I could see she was scared of him. They've split up too. I heard she told him she was lesbian just to get away from him, and he went ballistic. It certainly fits with what I'd seen of him.

Raymond

Maybe he's COC and changed religions.

beantighe

Now there's a thought!

Scott

Raymond could i also ask you to suggest some good books on the craft please? i seem to be buying all the confusing ones for some reason. lol.

Raymond

Yes of course Scott - and Waff, I'm sorry for taking so long in replying to this. I completely forgot about it.

It would take a long time to list individual books that are a good foundation for the newbie so instead I will list some authors that are generally a safe bet.

Anything by Raymond Buckland, Silver Ravenwolf, Kate West, Scott Cunningham or Rae Beth are a great foundation for the would-be witch.

In my opinion I would avoid websites while you're studying the basics. Websites are a great source of information once you have the craft pinned down and can sift through all the crap but they can be a minefield of nonsense for the beginner.

Scott

I've got a book by buckland. Practical candle burning or somthing like that. That confused me as well

Raymond

See again, quite an advanced book for a newbie.

Scott

i need to stop buying so many books, but when amazon becons i'm powerless to resist.

david hobbs

Scott

How do I do that?

mark

i wonder if raymond can assist

david hobbs

Samjaza

Raymond

wackyjacky

Scott

Raymond

Really?

My, my Mr. D'Arcy!!!