Guy-liner???

Raymond · Guy-liner???

From the London Metro:

It is a make-up essential found in millions of handbags. But now Yves Saint Laurent is launching a version of its Touche Eclat eyeliner specifically for men.

Touche Eclat For Men is unfragranced and will 'encourage men to use cosmetics as a skin enhancer, rather than to create a full make-up look', the company claims.

David Walker-Smith, director of beauty at Selfridges, which will sell the product for £22.50 a pop, said: 'Men have gone from stealing beauty products from their wives and girlfriends to stocking up on their own. They no longer consider them to decrease their male bravado.'

It follows this year's launch of 'guy-liner' and 'man-scara' eye make-up for men by high street chain Superdrug and will add to a booming grooming market for men worth an estimated £700million annually.

Former Big Brother contestant Stuart Pilkington will launch the product later this week.

What do we think to this one kids?

Waffle King

What-the-f***?

Make up for men???

It's bad enough that some men moisturise, but really?? Manscara??? my word where on earth did the Testerone go?

Raymond

Waffle King

It's the same with the Rain you know Raymond, Estrogen in the rain, it's crazy, and i heard that about the water going through 7 other people, but i hear thats only in the intercities, not nationwide, and as for goin to the pub with a bloke in manscara? think i'd rather drink alone

Raymond

evergreen

yeah so not my thing I don't even have any for me.. so he would put me too shame and that would never do :)

as for this estrogen thing... hmm well I know loads of women who don't have enough so how does that theory stand up? lets face it men want the lime light as well ....

david hobbs

Nothing wrong with make up for men.

What's a tattoo if it's not make up?

What about your hair you menly men you.

I suppose you don't give a toss how it's cut.

Of course you do. You would winge for England if the hairdresser mussed your pretty little tonsorial delight up.

You are as vain as women in fact probably almost varicose vein.

As for you Raymond you arse bandit you.

Put a bit of make up around your boyfriends ring piece and tell me that it doesn't look even more inviting.

Go on be men and whack on the lippy you load a poof's

Sian

Well said David.

How can wearing make up make you less manly? Surely it takes a strong and confident man to openly wear make up in this society? Either that or he's covering something up.

On our wedding day Rob will be wearing make up. When he has epileptic fits it makes him have a bruised appearance around his eyes for days afterwards from the strain. We don't want our photos showing that.

He's been out in make up before, although mainly for fancy dress, but if I asked him to wear some he would

Raymond

Ooohhh Hobbs! You been gargling with vinegar again dear?

I really don't have a problem with men wearing make-up on certain occasions.
Going out in drag, covering up scars and bruises - all things I have done in the past and would happily do again if the need arises.

I'm talking about the vain gits who would end up wearing it most of the time.

I know women who won't even nip down the corner shop unless they've got a full face of slap on, some men will end up like that too. It takes them hours to get ready just for the smallest of tasks.

I know plenty of men like this and already they take forever to get ready, imagine how much longer it would take if they applied war paint as well.

There's nothing wrong with a little vanity. People should take more pride in their appearence but as with all things there's an opportunuty to take it too far.
I mean, who do these people think they are? Posh bloody Spice?

Sian

I know what you mean Raymond.

I can have a bath, dry my hair, do my make up, get dressed, get Carys washed and dressed and be standing at the front door, car keys in hand, waiting for Rob to put his shoes on. And this is when he's dressed before I'm out of bed!

If he had to do make up as well... I'd be back home from wherever I was going before he got out of the bathroom.

Male grooming is not a bad thing. The amount of smelly, dirty men I see compared to women.... I think you guys in general need to accept that you smell bad and need a wash, never mind tarting yourselves up.

meiah

Personally, I wish more men would pay attention to their fingernails. Urghh, I don't like to see cracked and dirt encrusted nails.

I have no problem with men moisturing, many have done it by stealth for years by using moisuring shaving gels, and aftershave balm etc.

If they want to use makeup, fair enough. I do hope, though, that it does not stem from insecurity. I have always felt (in most cases) that men look great as they are. As a gender, they tend to have longer, darker eyelashes than women, and naturally better skin.
Greying hair looks fab on a man, as do laughter wrinkles around the eyes.

Please, please chaps, don't change those.

Bravo

Grey hairs and wrinkles look good?

Get in!

swanlady

My Trystans body make up (Tattoos which he designed himself).

The ones on his arm is chinese for Thoma and Charlotte.

david hobbs

As I said before male or female we all wear make up.

It's is just applied a little differently according to gender.

swanlady

The last photo was only taken two days ago. Hes in Turkey staying at his mum and father in laws home for a holiday. Lucky beggers they are.

Raymond

Oh! Tattoos are a whole different ball game altogether.

Filthy, dirty disgusting things. Why people want to make themselves look like a circus freak is beyond me.

Swanny, your Tristan is a very good looking young man but as far as I can see he's paid good money just to disfigure himself.
To my mind he should have just burnt himself with a blow-torch. It would have been much cheaper.

My friend has just spent £300 having the Superman emblem tattood on his chest, I mean - come on!
It looks like he's just had skin cancer removed.
I told him I would have thrown battery acid over him if he wanted a permanent scar on his chest and all it would have cost him was my bus fare.

evergreen

ha! Raymond.. come on Swannie some feedback please :))))

Sian

Ooh Raymond you've opened up a whole other subject here I think.

Tattoo's are an art form, even if you don't like them. I don't like opera. Tis all the same in my eyes.

I love my tattoos. I carry personal, custom designed, one off, unique pieces of art on my body for my lifetime and am proud of it :)

Raymond

david hobbs

It is so obviously a generation thing and I make no apologies for it.

I think that seeing a tattoo on a pretty young girl in her prime is like spitting on a beautiful painting.

But then as I say, it is just a generation thing and I have been conditioned to regard some things as beautiful and some as ugly.
I need to work on that.

swanlady

I did reply to this and then my bloody computer crashed!!!! lol.

I happen to agree with Raymond. They are disgusting to me.
Trystan is very much into his Art. He does portraits for people. He truly has a natural talent.
He thinks the same as sian here, that Tattoos are a form of Art.

I see it as a disfigurement. If we were meant to have writing and pictures on our bodies, I would have given birth to him with them already in place.

When Trystan told me he was having a Tattoo, I told him that i,d give him a Tattoo on his arse in the shape of my hand if he wanted marks on his body!!!

He did the typical manly thng and laughed it off.
Whats worse is Claire has a huge Tattoo on the middle base of her back. (Designed by no other than Trystan!), and another Tattoo goin from under her arm all the way down her side to the top of her thigh in the shape of orchids!!!
It would look lovely on paper, but not on her body!

When they have another Tattoo done now, they don,t tell me.

Raymond

Well said Swanny.

I'll give you another example. My friend Ricky (you've met him Hobbs) has been out of work for over a year now.
About a year ago he had a tattoo done on his neck. Nothing elaborate, just his initials in old english script.

In the past year he has been on countless job interviews from park ranger to barman and every single one he has been refused on grounds of his tattoo.
He has a job now in an office on the Olympic site but his boss (who has tattoos himself) has told him the one on his neck has to be covered at all times. The only way he can manage to do this is to wear a shirt and tie all the time. Now, on very hot days he can't undo his tie or open his top button (like his collegues do) all for the sake of keeping this "art" out of sight.

And while we're on the subject of tattoos, I'm going to say what I'm sure a lot of people are thinking. Within reason a discreet tattoo on a man may be passable, but when I see a very gaudy, obvious tattoo on a woman the first word that springs to mind is "slag!"

It's all very well to bang on about equal rights and non-discrimination (yadda yadda yadda) but if you honestly think most people (and I mean MOST) don't form opinions on you about the way you look, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

swanlady

It seems to be the norm these days for women to have Tatoos. But when I was young (AND I STILL AM!!) If you saw a woman with a Tattoo, then they were considered a butch Lesbian. Awful i know, but the truth.

Raymond

Bravo

Tattoo's are known as 'tramp stamps' apparently.

Never seen appeal tbh but to each his/her own.

Raymond

Sian

I totally understand where you guys are coming from on this subject. I have 9 tattoos and only one of the smallest ones is visible unless I choose to dress in a way which shows them.

They are on my back, shoulders, legs and a small one on my wrist which everybody tells me is pretty, it's designed to look like a bracelet.

I purposely chose the hidden locations because I know what people think of women with tattoos, especially large ones like mine.

I don't want to be seen as a slag or a butch lesbian, but at the same time why shouldn't I indulge in what I consider beautiful artworks just because some people don't like them?

I hope I have managed to strike a happy medium. I chose to have one visible bracelet tattoo on my wrist because as a chef I can't wear jewellery in work and I can never be bothered taking it on and off, so I chose to have a permanent piece.

Every tattoo I have has a meaning for me. Each tells a story of who I was and where I was at the time it was done.

I find them fascinating, a real insight to the person wearing them.

When I'm old and saggy I will possibly think differently but they will still be part of my life story.

I have had my daughters name added under the small heart since this was taken.

This has now been coloured but I can't find a pic of it finished!

I don't expect or want approval

swanlady

Sian

I didn't take offence at all :)

I try to be as openminded to others opinions as possible. I can totally understand where you are coming from, I see tattoos on people and think they look awful but I also appreciate the beauty of them when they are done well.

I make a point of considering how I will be viewed by others when chosing my art, simply because I don't want to be viewed as something I'm not.

If I'm honest I would love to be covered head to toe in ink, I have ideas for designs and nowhere near enough skin to house them all BUT I cannot bring myself to walk the earth for the rest of my days looking like a painted lady as I know very well I will be judged badly by the majority of people.

I don't resent the views people hold for a second and I do understand them even though I don't agree.

My tattoos are deeply personal and so I don't feel the need to show them off. I think the people you see covered in tattoos or having them in obvious places are trying to show the world something. I don't feel the need to :)

I'm just adding my view :)

Raymond

I also wasn't trying to imply you were a slag or anything Sian.

As with all things we individually have to make chioces about our lives and part of that includes how we present oursleves both in behaviour and presentation.

It's just that I know a fair number of young people (women, mostly) who have had tattoos when they were 18 and not much into their 20's regret it deeply.

I really do think the age of consent for them should be higher.

I don't generally have a problem with the design of them. A friend of mine has one and it is truly remarkable.
Between her shoulder blades is a Green Man and coming off it in a circle around the Green Man's head are different leaves and flowers and clockwise it takes you through the changes of nature through the year. Coming out of it at various places are Ivy twines and these twines snake all over her body, around her arms and legs and even into her *ahem* intimate area.
As a piece of artwork it is amazing and I am totally in love with the design of it - just not on the body.
I've often toyed with the idea of having something similar painted on my living room wall with the Ivy twines going round the room but I don't want to be thought of as a copycat.

It's just the idea of them being permanant that I think bothers me most because I don't feel the same about piercings (even though they can be incredibly ugly sometimes) but at least you can take a earring out and the hole will close up.

I wouldn't mind having a temporary tattoo that lasted just a few months but I just couldn't imagine having something done to me that will be there forever.

I know how fickle I am and easily bored I get so if I had a tattoo I just know that by this time next year I'll be crying my eyes out to have it removed.

Maybe I have commitment issues.

Bravo

It's not the artistry of tattoo's I am against (well, not 'against' just not for me personally), it's the permanency of them I dislike more than anything.

But like I said before, it is a matter of personal choice. Just cos I don't like em, doesn't mean everyone in the world should bow to my will.

Sian

Raymond

I have to ask Sian, what does that writing say on your back?

Sian

It is egyptian arabic and means "my life is for my family"

I chose to have it in arabic as it is a fundamental part of arabic society. Family comes first. Having travelled extensively in Northern Africa and the Sahara it was one thing I really noticed about the people there and how they live thier lives. I chose egyptian arabic as I love egypt and happened to be there to get it translated :)

Raymond

I like that.

I probably would have had in done in Welsh. That would be more in-keeping with your heretage and at least you know that for as long as you're alive a little bit of the Welsh language would be too.

swanlady

Well theres my answer to sian with her Tattoos and Trystan & Claire with theirs.
I,m in south wales Sian, so it must be the welsh water with you and my kids.

Sian

I have the first line of the chorus of the welsh national anthem around the prince of wales feathers and a welsh dragon also :) I am fiercly proud of my heritage.

Cymru am Byth!

Raymond

And so you should be!

Actually, I wouldn't mind the English rose tattood somewhere. But then people will think I'm either a football hooligan or a member of the BNP or something.

swanlady

I was,nt going to put this photo on here. But I,ve changed my mind.
This photo is for Sian.

This is my daughter in law Claire with the Tattoo she had done about three months ago.

Like i said not my cup of tea.

I,ve put them back up for Raymond.

Now i can imagine Raymond sitting there saying OH MY GAWD. lolol

Sian

Now you see I think that is lovely. It's not going to be on general view so it's a personal piece of art.

Thanks for posting it :)

Raymond

I can't see it.

swanlady

I,ve put them back up.

Raymond

I can see them now.

evergreen

I'm not into tattoos but I think its is because I'm not that proud of my body :) ....

I do like other peoples tattoos though.. your daughter in laws is really stunning.... I enjoy the stories behind tattoos and the idea that its something personal to you... I don't' like the idea of the pain and the toxins.. ha! I am a chicken through and through .. and my skin is so white good grief I just cant' imagine it

and my sister has a shamrock on her tummy for our Irish heritage PRIDE... she got it with some of our cousins so they each have the same thing ... I was horrified cause she was 13 at the time????? she is now 26 and hasn't got anymore...:)

Raymond

evergreen

so you would need to colour the whole skin with the needle... we may have to invent some other method Raymond it might take ages...

Raymond

But everyone would only need to have it once because it would last forever.

david hobbs

Now that, if possible to do is the best business idea I have heard in years.

It would definately sell.

Em, just thinking about the needle in the old todger!!!!!

Might give it a miss after all.

Raymond

Why would anybody want a tan on their old chap?

I actually think it's a brilliant idea! Of course it would be painful but women are used to that, have you never been waxed? Lots of women pay good money to have thier lady-garden physically tortured, I bet loads of people would be willing to pay for

TATTOO-TAN TM (Don't get burnt - get pricked!)

And if people are willing to part with their money - who am I to refuse to take it?

evergreen

lady garden good grief the terms I am learning Raymond hahaha

oh and I nearly spat out my tea reading that post

Raymond

And that's one of the nicer ones!

It's always good to fine-tune your spitting techniques EG.

swanlady

My Husband finally thinks i,ve lost the plot, sat here with tears streaming down my face through laughing.

evergreen

billy nomates

re make up etc..........
why not?
it's just fashion.300 years ago men wore make up and long wigs yet by the 1950's if your hair reached your collar you were a nancy boy!!!!!!

i think we should all dress how we want..tatts included.........its impossible to judge a book by its' cover..billionaires wear jeans!!!!!

if we all looked the same it would be boring.........

never had a tattoo myself because they are more or less permanent.had a henna version in india..washed off after 12 days........

available here now but it can burn kids i believe if you are unlucky.loads of kids in india use it all the time.

Raymond