Raymond
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Gays to adoptControversial plans to allow unmarried couples - both straight and gay - to adopt children.
Backed by the UK Health Secretary Alan Milburn, annoucing "It is vital for more children to grow up in a stable family environments.
MP Robert Walter Conservative wants to exclude gay people.
Under current law, only married couples and single people, including gay people, are allowed to adopt.
Earlier on Thursday, a free vote on an amendment to the Adoption and Children Bill was carried majority 155.
The move aims to lift the ban on adoption by unmarried heterosexual and same sex couples but faces fierce opposition in the final hurdle at the House of Lords.
Your views please.
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Bravo
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Not natural. A child in need of adoptive parents needs some normality, not further exposure to people with problems of their own. And being gay is defying nature.
Also, gay people tend to be overtly sexual.
How many people do you know who withihn five minutes of meeting them tell you their sexual preferences?
'Hi, I'm Felicity'
'Hello, my name is Bob. I like being tied up with fluffly handcuffs and whipped'
Felicity steps away
Yet gay people tell you they like to have anal sex/the female version within five minutes, why is this socially acceptable?
And a shortage of people wanting to adopt their aint, they need to relax the rules a little. Perfectly good couples are being refused for stupid reasons these days, it's ridiculous.
By the way, although it may come across very differently in this post, I have nothing whatsoever against gay people. What folk do in their own bedroom is their own business, so long as it is two consenting adults fine by me.
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david hobbs
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I always remember that when I was a cab driver I was called to an orphanage to pick up a fair.
it was a very large house and I had no idea that it was in fact an orphanage.
I went inside and pretty soon I was surrounded by little kids. They all looked at me and some came over and just held my hand.
One little girl said "are you my daddy". It wasn't a question but a hopful plea.
I came out trying to hide my tears.
I have no doubt that those kids wanted one thing. A normal life with someone to love and look after them. A cuddle is a cuddle and a Christmas present is as wonderful to a child regardless of the hand that delivered it.
I doubt that they would give a tinkers cuss as to whether they were living with a gay or a straight couple.
My one reservation would be that kids are cruel and school could be horendous for the adopted child. I am sure that any gay person could relate to that.
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david hobbs
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As a footnote I think that all things are a part of nature. How on earth could it be other than that.
The only time things are not a part of nature is when we judge them to be so.
Are our thinking minds more knowing than nature and creation.
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Bravo
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Being gay does defy nature in the sense that procreation becomes impossible, that's the sense I meant it in, rather than saying gay people aren't natural.
I know what I meant anyway 
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david hobbs
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| Bravo wrote: | Being gay does defy nature in the sense that procreation becomes impossible, that's the sense I meant it in, rather than saying gay people aren't natural.
I know what I meant anyway |
I know what you meant Bravo.
I still say that all is nature and only the mind see's it otherwise.
It's called judgement.
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Bravo
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Well if that is to be your line of reasoning, that as part of nature gay people should be allowed to adopt, then I shall take it a stage further and suggest that convicted murders, paedophiles and rapists are also a part of nature.
Do you judge them any more than you would judge gay people? Or any less?
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david hobbs
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They are indeed all apart of nature.
Should murderers and peado's be allowed to adopt. No.
Neither should gay murders etc.
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swanlady
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Why on Gods earth would you put gay people in the same catagory as rapists, muderers and paedophiles 
You may as well put you and i in the same catagory as them then 
Gay people don,t go to murder and rape someone just because they are gay.
We are the same. The only difference is our sexual preference with a partner/ husband/wife etc.
Two friends of mine who are gay, live three doors away from me.
they have four teenage children between them, and you would never meet more well balanced, well adjusted polite popular kids.
I say well done to their parents which just happens to be two woman for their unconditional love towards their children.
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Bravo
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I didn't put them in the same category.
Mr Hobbs argument was getting too good so I had to snip it
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david hobbs
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| Bravo wrote: | I didn't put them in the same category.
Mr Hobbs argument was getting too good so I had to snip it |
Having a good argument is no proof of the validity of the case that I am stating.
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evergreen
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its legal here already has been for years .... 
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evergreen
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| Bravo wrote: | Not natural. A child in need of adoptive parents needs some normality, not further exposure to people with problems of their own. And being gay is defying nature.
Also, gay people tend to be overtly sexual.
How many people do you know who withihn five minutes of meeting them tell you their sexual preferences?
'Hi, I'm Felicity'
'Hello, my name is Bob. I like being tied up with fluffly handcuffs and whipped'
Felicity steps away
Yet gay people tell you they like to have anal sex/the female version within five minutes, why is this socially acceptable?
And a shortage of people wanting to adopt their aint, they need to relax the rules a little. Perfectly good couples are being refused for stupid reasons these days, it's ridiculous.
By the way, although it may come across very differently in this post, I have nothing whatsoever against gay people. What folk do in their own bedroom is their own business, so long as it is two consenting adults fine by me. |
my neighbors happen to be a married heterosexual couple with five kids .. I'd say their children would more than likely be better off with other parents gay included.. in fact I have many gay friends you have kids and they are like me the bleed and laugh and cry and joke and most of they they love..... I'm a single mum that ain't normal either
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Raymond
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Well, this seems to have kicked off nicely.
Ok, speaking as a knob-jockey myself I don't think gays should adopt either.
First of all, surely that's one of the benefits of being gay. There's no pressure to breed so no screaming brats around you 24/7.
The main reason I disagree with it, and I wish to add my opinions are based on personal experience and not sweeping generalisations like Mr. Bravo, gay relationships tend to be more fickle than straight relationships.
The needs and wants of the child must come before the politically correct rights of the minority group. It seems this Labour government would prefer it to be the other way around.
Of all the gay couples I know (and have ever known) only 1 couple have been together for more than 10 years. Just 1.
These kids have obviously had a difficult past. Normal, healthy, well-balanced kids don't need adopting. These kids need long term stability and routine.
The last thing they need is to be placed with a couple who could break up at the drop of a hat.
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swanlady
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| Quote: | Of all the gay couples I know (and have ever known) only 1 couple have been together for more than 10 years. Just 1.
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I hope i,ve finally mastered this quote thingy).
I have only come across one gay couple that have ended their relationship.
The others have all been in long term relationships. one couple have been together for 15 years.
I believe it depends on the individual and who they meet in life.
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Bravo
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Can we please not come across gay couples...
Give them some privacy
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david hobbs
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I know four gay couples. Two have been together for as long as I can remember and one for six years.
Are you saying that because someone is gay that they are more likely to separate than a straight couple?
Perhaps children keep people together as they have something other than themselves to think about and something to share.
I know many many straight couples who have been divorced but does that mean that straight couples should not adopt?
I have one proviso.
The gay couple should be in a civil partnership.
Oh I just remembered a fith gay couple. Both platform mediums and very good ones.
They parted after a lifetime. One of them died.
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Raymond
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Well maybe it's just the gay people I know who are fickle.
I still don't agree with it however, for the same reason I disagree with single parenting.
I actually think it's important for a child's development to have a man and woman's influence in equal measure while they are developing and growing up.
Sorry EG. I know you do a sterling job as a single Mum but that's just how I feel.
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Bravo
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I'm not sure I'd go along with the relationships lasting less theory.
My main point is that children in a position where they need adopting are by their very predicament, vulnerable. What they need is stability and normalcy. They need to find their way back into societies accepted bounds, to regain acceptance from others and from themselves.
I am not saying a gay couple cannot provide a loving environment, not at all. I am merely saying a gay couple cannot provide a 'normal' environment (psychologically speaking).
I do not think gay people are anything other than people that merely have a different sexual/emotional preference. Some of them are great people, some of them are pillocks, as with anyone.
Just because the gay couple that live two doors down from anybody are really nice and great with kids etc etc doesn't mean that all others will be. That is as bad a generalisation as racism.
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Raymond
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But that's the whole point with debates like this. People base their beliefs on what they know.
Obviously most on here have had good experience with gays and they think ALL gays are good with kids.
I'm sure people who have had bad experiences with gays would have a very different opinion.
I hate it when people say being gay isn't 'normal' or 'natural'. It's perfectly normal and natural, and I don't say that out of politically correct liberalism (who me?).
In my opinion gays are created as one of nature's ways to keep the numbers down.
Obviously gay people can't reproduce but still want to have sex, so nature came up with the solution so they can have sex with each other.
I'm sorry to attract this conversation back to the 'arse thing' but a man's anal insides ARE designed to accept the penis.
Just imagine how many more people there would be in the world if every single gay person had a child.
So on that note, being gay is natural but it isn't natural for gays to have children.
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david hobbs
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I'm sorry to attract this conversation back to the 'arse thing' but a man's anal insides ARE designed to accept the penis.
Surely it travels in the wrong direction.
An arse is designed as a one way street not a ruddy dual carriage way.
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Bravo
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Just to clarify.
I am of the opinion that homosexuality/being gay is indeed natural.
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david hobbs
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| Bravo wrote: | Just to clarify.
I am of the opinion that homosexuality/being gay is indeed natural. |
As the day goes on the Baileys begins to take it's toll.
Mellow fellow.
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evergreen
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| Raymond wrote: |
The last thing they need is to be placed with a couple who could break up at the drop of a hat. |
you are kidding me Raymond look at the number of kids out ere that already have two three four men they call dad... there are never any guarantees... I learned that the hard way There are four hetro kids in my family and we all are now separated we all had a stable upbringing we are all well educated with great jobs.. we all had relationship that lasted longer than 10 years and now we are all single and three of us with children are single parents. my two brothers are now single parents also.. now that's not normal but it is a fact of life ..... and they are great parents
The thing is we think we know what kids need
we think we know what is right and what is wrong
and then the world changes and it all goes to hell....
my kids are fantastic probably better than if I was partnered yet I was horrified at the thought o sole parenting.. two parents that love you are certainly better than no love...
I have friends in my life that have lots to do with my kids many happen to be gay and my kids are certainly better off for their influence in their lives
its not being politically correct at all in my mind stopping gays from having kids on grounds that its not natural would be more so... what is natural any more ????
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Bravo
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| evergreen wrote: | | what is natural any more ???? |
Sex with a woman
Woman getting pregnant
Woman giving a little bit of a push and baby easing gently out (lights fuse, stands well back)
Father and mother immediately falling hopelessly in love with new baby (amazing how quick they get hold of you)
father goes out, hits things, brings back food (or modern day equivalent)
Mother takes food from father and gives it to baby (indirectly through boobage at first, then more and more solid as time goes on)
baby grows up, has sex with a man/woman...back to start
Anal sex/female version is just fun for those involved, it is natural as it comes with mankinds intelligence and desire for entertainment. But it does defy the natural order of procreation.
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evergreen
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| Raymond wrote: | I still don't agree with it however, for the same reason I disagree with single parenting.
I actually think it's important for a child's development to have a man and woman's influence in equal measure while they are developing and growing up.
Sorry EG. I know you do a sterling job as a single Mum but that's just how I feel. |
oh buggar Raymond your going make me blubber .... kids and I have had it tough but they are flourishing even if its me saying it but I wouldn't wish it on anyone
I wouldn't' have chosen single parenting (its the biggest reason why I am pro-termination) its extremely hard work however the choice was not mine.... its not always the case as things are rarely perfect even in a "civilly" recognised and somewhat accepted union
I still think that two solid parents are really important no matter what the gender ....
I have had so many gay clients over the last two years (word obviously got around) and many of these were once in straight relationships and are now in gay relationships with the children from the previous marriage living with them... some fo these are successful others hard work not unlike any divorced situation
the only one I would say that has been extremely negative for the children is one where the new male in the relationship wants to be a female and yet just got engaged to a woman... its very confusing I know... and as you can imagine the childrens father is beside himself it is confusing for adults how can the kids honestly understand they have no idea or real way of grasping the situation..... to me this is extreme but it is showing that there is a male and a female can have issues that are huge ... its not to do with being gay
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Raymond
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| david hobbs wrote: | Surely it travels in the wrong direction.
An arse is designed as a one way street not a ruddy dual carriage way. |
No Mr. Hobbs. It is both an in and an out hole. That's why the prostrate gland is situated about 2 inches just inside the bum hole because when it is rubbed it produces a feeling of pleasure.
That's why Men enjoy having a poo so much because it rubs their prostrate.
What a charming conversation.
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david hobbs
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| Raymond wrote: | | david hobbs wrote: | Surely it travels in the wrong direction.
An arse is designed as a one way street not a ruddy dual carriage way. |
No Mr. Hobbs. It is both an in and an out hole. That's why the prostrate gland is situated about 2 inches just inside the bum hole because when it is rubbed it produces a feeling of pleasure.
That's why Men enjoy having a poo so much because it rubs their prostrate.
What a charming conversation. |
You've been on this forum and I have met you personaly and you take all this bloody time to tell me something like that.
I feel so let down.
All that pleasure i've missed out on.
Oh well. Merry Chrisrtmas anyway.
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Raymond
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Allow me to demonstrate.... (snaps rubber glove into place)
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swanlady
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You boys are so funny. you have me in stitches sometimes
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GenieDi
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Well now we know!!!
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david hobbs
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| swanlady wrote: |
You boys are so funny. you have me in stitches sometimes |
Please don't humor him he will only come back again after christmas if you do.
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evergreen
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| Bravo wrote: | | evergreen wrote: | | what is natural any more ???? |
Sex with a woman
Woman getting pregnant
Woman giving a little bit of a push and baby easing gently out (lights fuse, stands well back)
Father and mother immediately falling hopelessly in love with new baby (amazing how quick they get hold of you)
father goes out, hits things, brings back food (or modern day equivalent)
Mother takes food from father and gives it to baby (indirectly through boobage at first, then more and more solid as time goes on)
baby grows up, has sex with a man/woman...back to start
Anal sex/female version is just fun for those involved, it is natural as it comes with mankinds intelligence and desire for entertainment. But it does defy the natural order of procreation. |
and for some it natural to have sex with some from the same gender.....
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david hobbs
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Or in a lot of cases, themselves
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