Do you want to be in or out of the EEC ?

david hobbs · Do you want to be in or out of the EEC ?

Here is something that was emailed to me.

Discuss if you wish.

Quote.....

Background

The collective political establishment, consisting of the three main political parties, have agreed amongst themselves, without our consent, to transfer our national sovereignty to Brussels. This process commenced in 1972 with the signing of the Treaty of Rome and concludes when the Lisbon Treaty comes into force. As the process is now in its final phase, the loss of our national sovereignty is now certain, unless their plans are stopped. There are profound implications for every British citizen if we lose our national sovereignty.
It is incomprehensible that a proud nation, which has on so many occasions courageously defended its freedoms and independence, should now just surrender its sovereignty, as a consequence of complacency, apathy, and ignorance and the duplicity of our own politicians.
The vast majority of voters still fail to realise or are unable to understand that the European Union is not a benevolent club comprising of co-operating nation states – it is unequivocally a new legal and political order wielding absolute power over member states and its citizens, controlled by an unelected political hierarchy with supreme powers. The EU is about centralizing power and the subservience of elected governments. The notion that the EU is somehow subservient to member states is both misguided and dangerous.
To claim back our independence we have to fully grasp the reality of our predicament. It is a travesty that the majority of people wanting to leave the EU are still voting for the collective political establishment that are committed to staying in. It is extraordinarily wrong to reward the very people who are betraying us.
If sufficient numbers of us now make the right decisions, to restore our independence and the right to govern ourselves, then we can be assured of a brighter and more prosperous future, than remaining shackled to the European Union.
The situation is now grave – but we have a strategy that will regain our independence – we need help for its implementation. Those who want to regain our independence and defend our sovereignty now have a simple choice – do something and support us – or just keep talking about it.
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beantighe

I think joining the EU was the most disastrous thing Britain has ever done. The British people were talked into voting for it because we were told it was a trading agreement. Only now are we finding out just how much we were lied to.

I voted No in the original referendum. France and Holland voted a resounding No to the ratification of the treaty (I forget which one) and also Denmark, was it? That's why our government wouldn't let us have a referendum, because the feeling in Britain was such that they knew they'd get a No vote, and that didn't suit their purpose. N Ireland also voted No the first time, so they held another referendum, to get the vote they wanted. From my experience, governments don't listen to the will of the people, they just use us, the voters, to get elected, and then they do as they damn well like, and then have the nerve to tell us it's for our own good! I believe this country would be well off if we didn't have to pay so much into the EU pot, which is draining our life-blood. It's shocking to think any UK government would become a puppet govt answerable to a bunch of anonymous bureaucrats in Brussels!

It's like spitting in the faces of all those who gave their lives in WW2 fighting for freedom from Hitler's domination. If this lily-livered lot in the big house in Westminster hand Johnny Foreignor the keys to Britain on a plate, we will become just a minor offshore European dormitory state, as Europe bleeds us dry of all our remaining resources and industry - what's left of it. We might just as well have let Hitler invade us back then, rather than lose all those lives and wait 60 years for it to happen anyway. Apparently, it was de Gaulle who prevented us from joining the then Common Market originally. Did he know something we didn't?

Waffle King

The EU is a load of BS thats for sure, but Britain wouldn't of had a choice either way, we're in so many pockets i'm wondering who made the trousers and the shirt to boot!! The UK is in how many other things? NATO? Permanent G8 member? EU now, common wealth in the old days, and however many other things aswell, it's crazy, but at the end of the day, we've still got the Queen and by Regal Law, any action this government takes, it has to go through her first! so it's not all bad is it?

Raymond

OUT! OUT! OUT!

What is it good for? What do we get from them that we couldn't get for ourselves?
I would love somebody to tell me what exactly we get for all the millions we pump into it, and by the way, Britain pays more than any other member country - no surprises there then.

beantighe

Why do we always seem to draw the short straw? It maddens me to see the way Britain seems to let itself be walked all over by the eurocrats. I found out recently that the EU issues directives, not compulsory laws, on certain things, like the size and shape of fruit and veg, for instance - daft I know, but when we were in Spain I was amazed at the variety of sizes and shapes of veg that you'd never see in Britain. Other countries put their own interpretation on these directives, but if Britain is told to jump, we ask How high?

david hobbs

Well I just put my UKIP election poster in the window so it's out of Europe for me.

Looks good too.

Picture of Winston Churchill on it.

I wonder it he claimed for his Havana Cigars on the expences.

evergreen

My feeling is that Britain created this kind of thing- you have to step back in time a bit but Britain shaped the modern world with colonies and the Commonwealth .. it still exists its not old hat it is there today alive and well .. The Queen is head of many countries....

Britain does have their fingers in lots of pies.. I think that is the way she liked it for so long and she still can't resist it ..

perhaps this has back fired.. I don't' know??

all I know is that Britain the world over created small Britain's and to this day these places hold the good the bad and the ugly of this domination of this rule over other this arrogance that Britain had the right to change other countries to walk in and say others were nothing compared to them... now what ever is happening with people from other countries stepping in to make claim to what is theirs now is only small change to what Britain did to their forefather.. The EU may feel as though something foreign has some from of power of control in your country .. well I say welcome to the world Britain its just a taste of your own arrogance

It is nothing Personal .. cause I'm British myself.. but honestly ... its just come around .. and its nothing compared to invasion and rule.. perhaps if Britain was happy to just be Britain then perhaps they would never have joined the EU..???? perhaps they were/are scared of missing out on anything that may be good perhaps they feel that need a piece of everything everywhere....

And before you give me the whole Britain civilized the world argument.. ask yourself why do you feel that the EU is not good for Britain

Lilly

Britain created an empire,and all great empires in the past have fallen.I agree with what you're saying E.G. and I think that we are being paid back,call it karma if you like... for all the things we British did to the slaves that we procured in numerous 'Empire' countries.
The countries we 'owned' are now owning us,I don't think we had a say in the voting anyway as look what happened in 1971 when we had decimalisation ; our opinion wasn't asked then and I doubt if it will be in the voting of going into the EU.
although I have always voted,[family tradition] how can we be sure that the voting system is fair? how can we prove the results?
My local post office owner said to me that our new coins are changing to prepare us for euros...hmmm,he could be right!
Whatever happens,I'm pretty sure we ,the common people won't have any say in what the government do ,and how much say does the Queen have? hers is not the last word.

Just a reminder for the old fogies on here... 24th of May is [was] Empire Day! ah! the good old days

david hobbs

Evergreen and Lilly are both right but this is now not yesterday.

The British people are now waking up to the fact that we are lied to both about our "glorious" past and everything else come to that so if any Karma is to be paid back it will stem from the actions of the ordinary people of Britain and not the lying cheating ruling classes who seem to feel that because of position rather than earned respect they can walk all over everyone.

They are about to find out differently and about time too.

By the way the roman empire still exists to in the form of the Catholic Church.

One other thing.

This is nothing more than rulers of countries gathering together to become just another bigger bunch of thieves. They don't have to conquer anyone to rake in the money because they have now overrun Europe without having to fire a single shot.

evergreen

Until people actually take responsibility for themselves then how can this change?

david hobbs

evergreen

well being a Leo so that explains it all ....

anyways .. its not just politicians that people give their power to it is teachers doctors partners friends .. good grief everyone they can .. they say here you are you do it for me and when it goes belly up I'll yell blue murder at you... where are to proactive persons .. where are the risk takers

david hobbs

You know Evergreen the only difference between me and you is the shape of our underwear

We seek some excitement in life but not the kind that comes from jumping out of an aeroplane bur rather the kind that comes from pushing our experience in this field to the limit.

Oh and bored with people who never move on in life.

Jumping from a plane sounds good too

Hunter

What you lot don't seem to realise, is that with a strong currency like the €, the EU (that I admit has it's faults), is making headway to push the monopoly of the $ and the American way of thinking into the background.
Even in France they don't want all the agricultural policies of the EU, but it is realised over here that strength in numbers helps against idiocy of other countries.
Joining the EU and having centralised politics, will not lower the power of each country's govts, but will in fact allow us to be available to help each other out quicker. The strength of a single currency will force other countries to lower their export prices, so that things will eventually become cheaper throughout Europe, and an economic crisis such as what has recently happened will no longer occur.
Think about this, France was one of the worst hit by the economic crisis, but we're pulling through, not by raising taxes, like in the UK, but by lowering them.
France & Germany are two of the richest countries in Europe. Do you lot really want the UK to be out on a limb, and have to put prices up more, just to equalise with the strength of the € ?
It's much better to join the euro zone and have a hand in the pie rather than waiting to get your plates handed over.

Sorry, rant over !!

david hobbs

We said I think that we had no objections to a trading agreement, that is what we voted for.

We do not want EU laws and regulations outside of trade.

I trade with my neighbour, I do not want my neighbour telling me what I can and cannot do in my own house.

We do not have to defeat the Dollar.

International banks have already done that.

matt

I'm for the EU, in the long run i think its potentially a great thing. By being able to erode national boundaries and maybe even national prejudices. Also were pooling alot of resources which can be used collectively towards great projects.

We might as well commit to the EU fully and try and get as much infulence as possible in order help shape the EU into something worthwhile.

Are choices are simple we are either part of the EU and have a democratic voice.

Or we stay alone and slowly but surely fall by the wayside.

I suppose we could always join with the USA and become there puppet.

Anyway these are just some views i currently share, i'm not saying the anti EU views don't have possitives but my personal belief is that the pro EU stand has more possitives then negatives.

matt

Sian

What Matt is saying makes alot of sense to me.

It seems the powers that be are more or less pro-EU and whatever we say isn't going to make a heck of a lot of difference. Power to the people and all that is fine if the people can be arsed to be powerful.

While the thought of being ruled by Brussels worries me I suppose the European puppets are no better or worse than our UK government puppets...or should that be muppets.

Just maybe with more countries to give their perspective views we may end up with a more rounded and fair way of doing things.

Yes it is going to cost us money, yes it will involve changes and let's be honest, us Brits don't do change without some serious grumbling. But if we didn't have something to grumble about in the pub / at the shop / over the garden fence / at work... what on earth WOULD we talk about??

The weather I suppose.

It's raining. Talk to you tomorrow.

Raymond

Call me a little Englander (please do!) but there is nothing that will ever convince me that being in the EU is a good thing.

Hunter, you say France and Germany are some of the richest countries in Europe, well Britain is the richest country in Europe and has remained so throughout this economic crisis and seems to be reviving faster than the eurozone all by itself.

Matt, you sound like a typical little euroite. Banging on about Britain 'teaming up' with either Europe or the US, well, here's a new one for you - why do we have to team up with anybody?
Our damp little country has done very, very well by itself for thr past 1000 years so why this need to jump into bed with others?

Sian, even though there's probably no difference between european politicians and British politicians, at least they are British politicians elected by British people.

And to all the pro-EUers, the european countries who have had the good sense to keep out of it all are still alive and kicking. Good old Switzerland!!!

I ask the question again and again I await a decent answer - what can the EU give us that we cannot get for ourselves?

And thankfully, it seems the vast majority of British voters would agree with me because the majority of British MEP's recently sent to Brussels belong to anti-EU parties.

If Johnny Foreigner wants to team up across the channel and form a little club then good luck to them, let's just keep Britain out of it.

I await the day we Brits wake up and get the hell out that corrupt, unaccountable little club.
That will be Britain's independence day.

evergreen

I like the fact that Australia is separate so I can understand if the English population would prefer to feel the same way.. our government had an idea of us joining more with Asian countries and it wasn't taken to

Why so we all have to be the same why can't we celebrate our differences and be glad of them... no wonder many kids want t dress the same and listen tot he same music perhaps this political movement towards oneness if much like the mass media push towards globalism....

methinks that many politicians have to been in the real world they all like to wear the same suites and drive the same car they many never have thought that differences are actually a great thing...

Big Grin

Raymond

I think the main problem with Britian being a member of the European Union is that the vast majority of us Brits just don't feel a common 'brotherhood' with other Europeans.

Don't get me wrong, Europe is a lovely place to visit but I think for a lot of British people they just feel too "foreign" for us to forge the kind of relationship that the politicians would like us to have with them.

Personally I feel more of a kinship with America and Australia (although I'm not suggesting any kind of political union with those countries either).

I think most Brits would agree they feel 'closer' the Aussies and Yanks as well.
Maybe it's because we share a common language but I think it goes deeper than that because we actually do share a common kinship with both those countries as most of their ancestors are our ancestors too.

I just honestly cannot see any benefit to Britain to be part of the EU. I also can't see any benefit to other rich European countries like France and Germany being part of it either.
There are, however, many many benefits to poorer European countries having the richer countries in the club though.

Hmmm.....

Bravo

We should tell Europe to go do one

Raymond

Maybe Bravo, but I have sneaky suspicion a lot of us will miss their cheap booze and fags and even cheaper holidays to Spain.

Bravo

If we told them to do one, the treasury wouldnt be forking out for all the poxy little country's we're currently forking out for and thus would be able to reduce tax on fags and booze.

Also, with global warming, Spain will soon be a desert, and all the Spaniards will be holidaying in Whitby.

Get out of that then.

Raymond

Yes there's always that.

That and the fact that virtually every war Britain has been part of in the past 1000 years has been with one (or more) of our European neighbours.

And another thing! They never give us 'douze points' in the Eurovision bloody song contest!!!

Bad blood runs very deep.

Bravo

Dooz pwa

If only.....

I think that's a dream too far Raymond, a dream too far...

evergreen

surely you guys aren't mixed up tax wise with Europe are you???

i think you are no something there Raymond we Aussies (me being a British Australia am only one of millions) feel very close to England and then secondly New Zealand.. (but that's kind of a seen as a royal joke as its so small & has no military) the US... is there but I think a distant part of Australia because we feel so far way from the entire world ... :)

I know money is separate from war alliances but perhaps we are getting that a tad crossed over in our thinking???? I 'm fairly sure that I am :)

Raymond

Bravo

Just to point out, I know (in real life) quite a number of kiwis and aussies and every last one of them has been a top bloke/girl.